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Michael Brown Shooting

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Unabogie said:
Yeah, and on that note I'm dropping out again. Not one of them is interested in actual discussion.
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Gee I don't know why anyone would think that. :rolleyes:

shuize said:
A single shove after the racist shopkeeper refused to donate to the orphan children's wheelchair fund. The menacing only occurred after the shopkeeper said something mean about sickle-cell anemia.
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The Central Scrutinizer said:
My computer doesn't have the "UTube" program. Can you post a transcript?
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shuize said:
Michael Brown did not "shoplift" those Swisher Sweets. He just asked if he could hold them for a while. The pushing and shoving was the friendly negotiation with the shopkeeper about how long.
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Howie Felterbush said:
Further proof that Brown was an angel.
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The Central Scrutinizer said:
I see Paris, I see France,
I see Michael's underpants!
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theprestige said:
Be careful not to let the narrative get too far ahead of the facts. Remember what happened to those people who insisted Brown had been shot in the back?

For all you know, Brown could have been reaching across the counter to hand the shopkeeper a Chick Tract.
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I saw a posting on Facebook this evening, purporting to show Brown "paying" for his purchase, by leaning all the way across the counter. Now, I'm pretty sure I've been in hundreds (if not thousands) of stores in my life, and witnessed thousands (if not tens of thousands) of customers paying, and I don't recall a single one paying in anything but an upright position.

Unless they were in a wheelchair. Like the crippled neighborhood orphans Brown was helping.
 
casebro said:
If he only fired the six, and all are accounted for in the front/head, then he did not shoot at Browns back when he was fleeing.

If there are blood droplets beyond the point where the body ended up, then Brown was probably charging.
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If there's blood beyond the point where the body ended up, then I think it was planted by corrupt police.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Are you asking about my personal experience with violence? I've been a nurse and a nurse practitioner for years. I've seen many victims of violence. I've seen many violent patients.

If Wilson shoved a person once? It would be a very minor contributing factor. But you are comparing apples and oranges. Brown was not in a position of power where public trust came into the picture.
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My son is a nurse at Einstein hospital in North Philly. Difficult work, especially in a violent neighborhood. He sees the actions of Mr. Brown as substantially more aggressive than you seem to. I am no nurse, the victims of violent acts I have seen ( and been ) have all been during the actual violent act. As I pointed out earlier, if you wish to be taken seriously as a judge of what is and is not violent and aggressive, I am sure you can find some places to frequent that will provide you with the experiences to make that call in pretty short order.

As to " apples to oranges " , which principle is the orange? They are two men who's willingness to perpetrate violence against another is the crux of the entire debate. There is already very substantial evidence that Mr. Brown was in a state of being aggressive and willing to do harm that very afternoon. Can you provide evidence that officer Wilson was at least equally as aggressive prior to the shooting? (and by evidence, I mean something other than " all those people are violent by nature " I mean evidence about the individual officer involved ).
Likely not.
Ironically, if such evidence existed existed, I don't think you would hesitate to bring it out at least every other post.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Are you asking about my personal experience with violence? I've been a nurse and a nurse practitioner for years. I've seen many victims of violence. I've seen many violent patients.

If Wilson shoved a person once? It would be a very minor contributing factor. But you are comparing apples and oranges. Brown was not in a position of power where public trust came into the picture.
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This is a fair point. Precisely because of their position of power wherein they can use lethal force, cops are (or should be) held to a higher standard than the rest of us.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Still cherry picking one piece of cummulative evidence I see.

Which is why I waited until there was cumulative evidence the story was fraudulent.

How much more evidence do you need?
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The evidence of the medical report or multiple sources reporting on a medical report which would still merit an asterisk. Is it fair to mark your claim down as fraud?

My claim is that it is undetermined. I'm basing that claim on the lack of a medical report and the fact that the police have not released a fuller picture of the evidence.

I also evaluate the claim as plausible given the circumstance that he was taken to hospital and treated for facial injury and the claims made through the radio caller and confirmed as accurate by various news organizations with that asterisk.

I would quibble that even if the claim is false, your claim is false as well because it's not based in objective fact just as anyone here who claims the assertion as objective truth. I don't get the Nobel Prize for predicting negative curvature until I show my objective proofs.
 
Cylinder said:
So, relying on your training and experience, if a patient presented with no icepack you would rule out orbital fracture as a potential diagnosis? It that what you're saying?

Also, no-one to my knowledge is saying the story is truth. We are saying it cannot be dismissed as fraud as earlier asserted.
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Actually, until and unless it is corroborated by a credible source it really should be tabled.
Arguing the point based upon the source as presented is like arguing that " Bigfoot" did it because some loony posted it somewhere and no one can yet prove that Bigfoot didn't do it.
 
Unabogie said:
Wait, you mean "skeptics" on this board are buying the word of Jim freaking Hoft? The same ones who've spent the week glad-handing each other about how robust their critical thinking skills are?
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Pointing out that a blob of a photo doesn't prove anything doesn't mean that anyone is supporting Hoft, whoever he is.

You can't even tell whether it's Wilson...

 
Distracted1 said:
Actually, until and unless it is corroborated by a credible source it really should be tabled.
Arguing the point based upon the source as presented is like arguing that " Bigfoot" did it because some loony posted it somewhere and no one can yet prove that Bigfoot didn't do it.
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I've already stated as much well as others here. The dispute is whether is can be labeled false. Neither assertion is correct no matter the outcome.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
I saw a posting on Facebook this evening, purporting to show Brown "paying" for his purchase, by leaning all the way across the counter. Now, I'm pretty sure I've been in hundreds (if not thousands) of stores in my life, and witnessed thousands (if not tens of thousands) of customers paying, and I don't recall a single one paying in anything but an upright position.

Unless they were in a wheelchair. Like the crippled neighborhood orphans Brown was helping.
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He was demonstrating his well known propensity for exposing the top of his head.:boxedin:
 
Distracted1 said:
My son is a nurse at Einstein hospital in North Philly. Difficult work, especially in a violent neighborhood. He sees the actions of Mr. Brown as substantially more aggressive than you seem to. I am no nurse, the victims of violent acts I have seen ( and been ) have all been during the actual violent act. As I pointed out earlier, if you wish to be taken seriously as a judge of what is and is not violent and aggressive, I am sure you can find some places to frequent that will provide you with the experiences to make that call in pretty short order.

As to " apples to oranges " , which principle is the orange? They are two men who's willingness to perpetrate violence against another is the crux of the entire debate. There is already very substantial evidence that Mr. Brown was in a state of being aggressive and willing to do harm that very afternoon. Can you provide evidence that officer Wilson was at least equally as aggressive prior to the shooting? (and by evidence, I mean something other than " all those people are violent by nature " I mean evidence about the individual officer involved ).
Likely not.
Ironically, if such evidence existed existed, I don't think you would hesitate to bring it out at least every other post.
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That's the wrong question.

The relevant question is whether or not Wilson displayed an appropriate level of aggression during the shooting.
 
Redtail said:
Also, it might not be true.
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True, it might not be true.

LTC8K6 said:
I had actually never heard of him before.
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Neither have I. And I still haven't in anything but name. I think I've heard of the site Gateway Pundit, but I don't think I've ever visited it.

It could certainly turn out that it is a BS rumor, which is fine. I don't have a problem with people discussing things in a "if this turns out to be true then I think this" type of way, on either side.
 
Imagine a filled out, 6'4" white guy stomps into a liquor store, grabs a bottle of Jack and waltzes out. The immigrant storekeeper tries to stop him, but the mountain of man grabs a fistful of shirt and grumbles "back off." He saunters down the street pleased with himself, casually disregarding laws big and small and jaywalks when --

A police SUV drives by.

This is Darren Wilson. He's 28, married and black. Sometimes it's difficult being a black man in white community, especially since this community's hostile to the police, but Wilson's been on the force for six years without incident, and even received a commendation for his service.

Wilson tells the jaywalker to stay out of the street, and the two men soon jaw each other. That's when Wilson recognizes the liquor bottle...

[**** goes down]

Wilson and his young wife flee town. They've received death threats.
 
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