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Michael Brown Shooting

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Monketey Ghost said:
One direct punch to the eye, landing flush. Doesn't take a big person to do it either, small people can have great punching power.

I'm very curious to see if this report is correct.
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We will have to wait until after Wilson's autopsy results come back.
 
dudalb said:
This exercise in bad reasoning from Slate:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2...pport_group_is_as_classy_as_you_d_expect.html

Message,anybody who supports Wilson is automatically a rascist.

Which he supports by cherry picking. OF course,given the nature of the case, some bigots are going to support Wilson. Just like some radicals are going to support the Brown Family.

And the outrage of the writer about "How Dare Anybody Support Wilson" is pretty outrageous.
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It's a religion for these people. How dare you question his faith?
 
I stopped by to see what the forum had to say about all this.

It looks like we know enough to make a pretty good guess about what happened.
1. Wilson asks Brown and Dorian Johnson to get out of street
2. Wilson receives message that convenience store has been robbed by somebody matching Brown and Johnson's description
3. Wilson maneuvers his car to block Johnson and Brown as part of an effort to arrest them.
4. An altercation begins between Brown and Wilson with Brown outside Wilson's car and Wilson inside Brown's car, a shot is fired inside the car that doesn't hit anybody.
5. Brown runs from the car.
6. Wilson pursues him and tells him to stop
7. Brown turns and charges Wilson who shoots him six times as Brown charges toward Wilson. One of the bullets hits near the top of Brown's head which is consistent with the idea of Brown charging head first towards Wilson (but also consistent with Wilson slumping forward after he has been shot by Wilson while he is holding his hands up).

None of this is consistent with the shot while his hands were in the air. My guess is that didn't happen, but of course it might have. There is unreleased information that might help to sort this out. Where were the shell casings? Where is Brown's body relative to the location Wilson shot from? I think it's fair to discount the testimony entirely of Johnson. He is a criminal and he has a vested interest in screwing over the cop. Apparently Ferguson's record keeping about complaints against cops is not good and the fact that Wilson doesn't have disciplinary actions against him is not as strong an indication that he hasn't shown any proclivity to anything like this as it might be.

The biggest reason I see to doubt that my narrative is accurate is that the Ferguson police have done such a poor job on the public relations side of things. They seem to have gone out of their way to avoid releasing information favorable towards Wilson which might be, because the evidence doesn't support my Wilson friendly narrative above.

No matter what the politics of this situation are interesting. I get emails from the DailyKos and they are in full out blame this on Wilson and the Ferguson police in general mode. Is that because they really believe it or are they part of an overall liberal/Democratic effort to exploit this event as much as possible to cement their position as the party for black people?

The actions of DailyKos and other liberal media outlets look a lot like Fox News actions in favor of the Republican Party. Is Ferguson the Benghazi moment for the left?
 
Giz said:
jimbob said:
In other words, not whether or not he shot in self-defence, but whether a gun should be the first weapon for self-defence when facing even a large unarmed person.
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It's not as simple as that... if the officer had opted not to use his gun as Brown came forward then what could have stopped (the vastly bigger) Brown taking his gun from him?

If Brown re-engaged Wilson, then Wilson would have been justified in shooting. If Brown had clearly surrendered (or was running off into the distance with hands held high and clearly weaponless) then Wilson was not justified.
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Thanks for that. I was thinking about what the protocol would be with a UK cop, where the pepper spray would probably be used. Although 12-yards mightn't be sufficient for safety.

I agree that if Brown re-engaged Wilson, then Wilson would be justified using some form of weapon - I was wondering whether a gun would be the most appropriate.
 
LTC8K6 said:
Not even an inch...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...uson-missouri-teen-shooting-witness/13992387/
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I just can't understand the "headlock through the window" thing. Why would a trained officer expose himself to danger like that? Johnson's credibility is getting thinner and thinner, especially with the Baden autopsy revealing no shots to the back. Weren't his statements the reason the protests started?

TheL8Elvis said:
Can't be true. Famous forensics guy said there was no micro-capillary-burst-mark on his hands or something. So therefor the cop is still lying.

Or something :rolleyes:
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All we need is Famous Attorney representing the family of the victim...oh wait, isn't Benjamin Crump already there?

I really, really hope this situation de-escalates with a peaceful resolution. If Wilson killed Brown because he's a racist jerk, I demand he be prosecuted and imprisoned. But I also hope that an innocent man isn't railroaded by a mob seeking an eye-for-an-eye.
 
Does "consistent with" count as some kind of evidence? (Other than evidence of my ability to spin a just-so story?)
 
Chris L said:
The issue of what actually happened is interesting, but almost irrelevant to what is going on there now.
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The protesters seem to believe (and not without some justification, given the actions of the Chief of Police), that had the officer in question walked into the store and emptied his gun into Brown's back
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If anyone gets how either of the statements above make any sense, please translate.


They don't trust the authorities on this one, and the police haven't gone out of their way to gain trust either.
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?? You mean like when they released the name of the officer? (which IMO was extremely stupid - think he feels safe in his house, or much of anywhere besides the police station for that matter?)

As to the politics of the issue, some people here might want to expand their reading a bit. While there are some on the right who are defending the cops, there are others who are talking about how cops now seem to see themselves as soldiers and not law enforcement officers. That change alters the way they interact with citizens in a way that is unhealthy for a free society.
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Yeah what's up with all that riot control stuff. Let the citizens (most down there who have already convicted the officer in their minds w/o a shred of evidence) run wild and "free." Now THAT'S healthy!

:boggled:
 
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dudalb said:
This exercise in bad reasoning from Slate:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2...pport_group_is_as_classy_as_you_d_expect.html

Message,anybody who supports Wilson is automatically a rascist.

Which he supports by cherry picking. OF course,given the nature of the case, some bigots are going to support Wilson. Just like some radicals are going to support the Brown Family.

And the outrage of the writer about "How Dare Anybody Support Wilson" is pretty outrageous.
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Welcome to 21st century America. Aint it great??
 
LTC8K6 said:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

BREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack
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That sounds nasty. Maybe that was what gave Michael Brown the 'incentive' to rush the officer... "Wow. He's messed up, I can take him!" Maybe, anyway...

Now, about that impossible 'kill shot' to the 'top' of the head... A few minutes work and it doesn't seem so far fetched...

picture.php


Those all seem to be to the 'top of the head' and fatal, but only one is looking 'down'.
 
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davefoc said:
I stopped by to see what the forum had to say about all this.

It looks like we know enough to make a pretty good guess about what happened.
1. Wilson asks Brown and Dorian Johnson to get out of street
2. Wilson receives message that convenience store has been robbed by somebody matching Brown and Johnson's description
3. Wilson maneuvers his car to block Johnson and Brown as part of an effort to arrest them.
4. An altercation begins between Brown and Wilson with Brown outside Wilson's car and Wilson inside Brown's car, a shot is fired inside the car that doesn't hit anybody.
5. Brown runs from the car.
6. Wilson pursues him and tells him to stop
7. Brown turns and charges Wilson who shoots him six times as Brown charges toward Wilson. One of the bullets hits near the top of Brown's head which is consistent with the idea of Brown charging head first towards Wilson (but also consistent with Wilson slumping forward after he has been shot by Wilson while he is holding his hands up).

None of this is consistent with the shot while his hands were in the air. My guess is that didn't happen, but of course it might have. There is unreleased information that might help to sort this out. Where were the shell casings? Where is Brown's body relative to the location Wilson shot from? I think it's fair to discount the testimony entirely of Johnson. He is a criminal and he has a vested interest in screwing over the cop. Apparently Ferguson's record keeping about complaints against cops is not good and the fact that Wilson doesn't have disciplinary actions against him is not as strong an indication that he hasn't shown any proclivity to anything like this as it might be.

The biggest reason I see to doubt that my narrative is accurate is that the Ferguson police have done such a poor job on the public relations side of things. They seem to have gone out of their way to avoid releasing information favorable towards Wilson which might be, because the evidence doesn't support my Wilson friendly narrative above.

No matter what the politics of this situation are interesting. I get emails from the DailyKos and they are in full out blame this on Wilson and the Ferguson police in general mode. Is that because they really believe it or are they part of an overall liberal/Democratic effort to exploit this event as much as possible to cement their position as the party for black people?

The actions of DailyKos and other liberal media outlets look a lot like Fox News actions in favor of the Republican Party. Is Ferguson the Benghazi moment for the left?
Click to expand...


I wrote MSNBC off as being a Bizarro version of Fox News a long time ago.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
I speculate that the store owner was afraid of getting targeted by local people for fear of what precisely did happen, wanton destruction of his store.

I'm sure he had to account for the loss of inventory somehow so my guess is he made a police report but declined to press charges, which is what I'd do in his place if I knew if I had to see the guy walk into the store again.
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I believe I read that they've burned down that store anyway.
 
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