• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Michael Brown Shooting

Status
Not open for further replies.
Skeptic Tank said:
I wouldn't be granting a lot of weight to anything Dorian Johnson, or the members of the "snitches get stitches" community have to say about what happened out there.

The officer is our best source.
Click to expand...

And I'm not putting a lot of weight on the officer neither. Yea, Johnson lost his a decent amount of strength as a witness when he said Big Mike wouldn't hurt a fly, but I def don't think he was lying when he said the cop acted like a jerk to the jaywalkers and the teens yelling out they were almost at their destination which is the complexes on Canfield.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Perhaps you're expecting an unrealistic level of thoughtful reflection and wise action from someone who commits strong-arm robbery in full view of multiple security cameras, his face unobscured, in his own neighborhood, in broad daylight, with numerous customers and clerks around.
Click to expand...

Or perhaps I don't pretend to be able to read minds so I can wedge my predetermined conclusions into an incident of which I have no direct knowledge.
 
johnny karate said:
"thug"
Click to expand...

If you won't remove the quotation marks from the word thug after seeing this...

ZRLVOv3.gif


I have to start wondering if you know what the word means.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
My guess is that the officer doesn't like Brown's response to being told to get off the street, which was considerably less cordial than what Dorian Johnson claims.
Click to expand...

That would not surprise me.

He begins to exit his vehicle in order to lose the disadvantage of being in a seated position,
Click to expand...

Is the crew of the Skeptic Tank at a disadvantage being in the seated position?

so he can take the interaction to the next level if necessary (at this point this probably means just restating that they needed to get on the sidewalk, or it may have meant more, like him expressing a desire to search them, or something) and at this point, Brown decides the officer isn't getting out of his vehicle, and pushes him back into it/pushed the door into the officer.
Click to expand...

Given their druthers, when the crew of the Skeptic Tank exits do they do so in grappling range of the enemy?

Officer has now been assaulted and knows that he needs his gun out to, at the very least, gain compliance and ensure his own safety. But now Brown is coming into the cruiser and attacking him further. You can debate whether that was Brown reacting to seeing the officer get his gun out, and I don't care if it was or not. When an officer draws his weapon your means of avoiding being shot is compliance, not trying to take it from him.
Click to expand...

So you discount anything happening through the window like Dorian Johnson's account indicates? Do I understand correctly that you think the officer tried to exit the vehicle and Michael Brown deliberately attacked Officer Wilson and then tried to get into the vehicle? Officer Wilson then draws his gun, Michael Brown goes for it and Wilson fires, Brown stumbles off and Wilson gets out and fires and fires and fires and fires....

As long as he makes sure the punk is dead his day is made, right?
 
Here's an odd detail regarding the alleged robbery.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/15/ferguson-police-michael-brown-robbery-suspect

Jay Kanzler, a lawyer for the owner, who was not named, told reporters that it was a customer, not a member of staff, who called police last Saturday. He said the store had been part of the community for many years and knew many customers by name – but not Brown.

Kanzler gave no details of the robbery and attempted to distance the store from the aftermath. He declined to say if staff even considered the incident a robbery.

“Another customer called the police. My clients were served with a warrant for the video and hard drives and will comply because they have to,” he said.

Ferguson police collected video footage last Saturday, said the lawyer. He did not know if St Louis County police would obtain additional material via the warrant. He said the store staff would make no statement and asked the media to leave them alone.”My clients have nothing to do with this investigation.”
Click to expand...

So there was never an official police complaint by the store? Wasn't the whole idea that Wilson was responding to a reported robbery, but how would that call have gone out if there was no official complaint from the store owners that included a description?

I suppose you could chalk it up to the store owners being intimidated, but still. Just weird. It seems more like they decided to fit this in later.
 
johnny karate said:
Are battery and robbery punishable by death? Is being a "thug"?
Click to expand...
I think you are confusing the meaning of " punishment " with something that means " because of "

No punishment was meted out. Had it gotten to that point Mr. Brown would still be alive and, in a few weeks, making positive contributions in the classroom of his local community college.
What happened to him was the result of his actions, not the punishment for them.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
If you won't remove the quotation marks from the word thug after seeing this...

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/ZRLVOv3.gif[/qimg]

I have to start wondering if you know what the word means.
Click to expand...

According to the chief the officer didn't even know he was a suspect so your argument is without merit.
 
Distracted1 said:
The portion you highlighted indicates pretty clearly that there are times when it is appropriate to shoot a fleeing, unarmed felon.

Your refusal to differentiate between the first violent felony Mr. Brown committed that day, and the second one he committed ( which, according to Johnny Karate can reasonably be looked at as attempted murder ), seems impossible to overcome with logic.
Click to expand...

Guess I missed the whole trial and verdict.
 
qayak said:
According to the chief the officer didn't even know he was a suspect so your argument is without merit.
Click to expand...

I was merely pointing out that Brown was, in fact, a thug. I said nothing regarding the officer or the officer's knowledge.
 
tsig said:
Guess I missed the whole trial and verdict.
Click to expand...

He's dead, there won't be a trial or verdict, but we do have a video of him committing the strong-arm robbery, and we do have his family admitting that it's him... and we have Dorian Johnson apparently having admitted this to the FBI...

so back in the real world, we know for a fact that he committed that crime.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
If you won't remove the quotation marks from the word thug after seeing this...

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/ZRLVOv3.gif[/qimg]

I have to start wondering if you know what the word means.
Click to expand...

I know what it means. I also know it is used as a dog whistle term for those wishing to not use other words considered socially unacceptable. If I am unsure of the user's intent, and therefore wish to distance myself from the term by use of quotation marks, that is my prerogative. If that somehow offends or troubles you, it's not something I am concerned with beyond the end of this sentence.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
I wouldn't be granting a lot of weight to anything Dorian Johnson, or the members of the "snitches get stitches" community have to say about what happened out there.

The officer is our best source.
Click to expand...

The cops are always right.:eek:
 
johnny karate said:
I also know it is used as a dog whistle term for those wishing to not use other words considered socially unacceptable.
Click to expand...

See when I see a lot of black people being called thugs I think "oh that's probably because a lot of black people are thugs" and this hunch is backed up by the fact that when I look at the individual black people being called thugs, they are always criminals and people who assaulted somebody... or at the very least someone who is working very hard to cultivate a "hard gangsta thug" persona, at which point you're really just honoring their own wishes as to what they be called.

I guess when I start seeing people call Morgan Freeman, Bill Cosby, Larry Elder, and Will Smith "thugs" I might start agreeing with you about it just being a stand in word for the N word.

Currently, I think that claim is buffoonish.
 
johnny karate said:
Or perhaps I don't pretend to be able to read minds so I can wedge my predetermined conclusions into an incident of which I have no direct knowledge.
Click to expand...

The prosecution is going to be doing that, like they do in all criminal cases that go to court.
 
Wolrab said:
It is if you try it on someone able to fight back.
Click to expand...

Distracted1 said:
I think you are confusing the meaning of " punishment " with something that means " because of "

No punishment was meted out. Had it gotten to that point Mr. Brown would still be alive and, in a few weeks, making positive contributions in the classroom of his local community college.
What happened to him was the result of his actions, not the punishment for them.
Click to expand...

I glad for the both of you that you're content to live in a society in which cops can just kill people, and as long as they tell us they had to, we just go ahead and believe them.

Personally, I find such a notion rather chilling, and wish to see a scrutiny applied to these situations that assures the citizenry their police force is acting with the responsibility their roles merit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom