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As of now I am witholding judgement on the shooting, but feel there is more then enough evidence to condemn the Ferguson Police department..and whatever other police agencies are involved....for their idiotic handling of the aftermath.

And honorable mention to the Governor of Missouri for being AWOL for four day during the worst crisis Missouri has seen for some time. Nice going, Gov.
 
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Anecdotally, I've heard they have not. At least a day or two after the incident, the friend that was with Brown at the time was saying he had not been interviewed. I'll see if I can find something that backs that up.

It's back in the thread, Dorian Johnson was a trifle bit wary of coming forward at first. That would be consistent with the story he had to tell. That was a couple of days ago though.

Here's an article from when he came forward. That's the third different spelling of his name that I've seen.
 
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It was wrong when it was done to Zimmerman, and it would be wrong to do it to this cop.
Why do you hate the First Amendment? Nothing happened to Zimmerman as a result of his image being published everywhere constantly. There's no question which cop shot the kid. Are you afraid of some facts? The truth?
 
As of now I am witholding judgement on the shooting, but feel there is more then enough evidence to condemn the Ferguson Police department..and whatever other police agencies are involved....for their idiotic handling of the aftermath.

And honorable mention to the Governor of Missouri for being AWOL for four day during the worst crisis Missouri has seen for some time. Nice going, Gov.

It's definitely not just Ferguson PD. The officers who arrested the reporters in McDonald's seem to have been County police, and in the video of the Al Jazeera crew getting teargassed, a vehicle from St. Charles County Regional SWAT is clearly visible. The police are spreading the bad behavior around.
 
When I know what the police did, I'll let you know what standards I hold them to.

I know what the media does. Get things wrong.
What? You can't have objective standards of conduct and judge actions against that objective standard? You have to see who's white and who's black first, or something?
 
They won't release the officer's name so there is no way to determine if that officer has a history of excessive force.
 
It's definitely not just Ferguson PD. The officers who arrested the reporters in McDonald's seem to have been County police, and in the video of the Al Jazeera crew getting teargassed, a vehicle from St. Charles County Regional SWAT is clearly visible. The police are spreading the bad behavior around.

They aren't spreading it around. It is ingrained in their culture which is why it isn't limited to a single force or individual. They actually believe they are the heroes in this.
 
At a local Starbucks this morning I heard two Sacramento City Police officers discussing Ferguson,and the attitude of both toeare the Ferguson plice were "What a bunch of incompetent idiots.".

Why doesn't the Chief in Ferguson do like NYPD does? Throw the officer under the bus. That way everybody can relax. :cool:
 
But it appears that he was not.

You mean the executive editor of one the world's leading newspapers actually knows more about his business than people posting on an Internet message board? Will wonders never cease! :rolleyes:
 
You mean the executive editor of one the world's leading newspapers actually knows more about his business than people posting on an Internet message board? Will wonders never cease! :rolleyes:

It was an argument from authority and not even an executive editor of one of the world's leading newspapers is should be taken at his word as an appropriate authority on legal and/or constitutional matters.
 
They won't release the officer's name so there is no way to determine if that officer has a history of excessive force.

According to this article the officer in question 'has not had any other issues.'


Dean Schabner ABC 8/10/14 said:
The officer who shot the 18-year-old has been with the Ferguson Police Department for six years, and has not had any other issues since he has been on the force, Belmar said. His name has not been disclosed.
 
Just a few bits.... It's entirely possible that I could be involved in this mess, even though I work for a campus police department. We are deputized and largely trained by the County police, have received various forms of "crowd control" training, and we have the necessary equipment (shields, helmets, etc) in our cars.
We are in fact, for the next week. putting out a 2-man "detail" which is nominally to provide extra patrol but also to be available to "respond if requested".
To put in our two-cents worth, as it were.

I see that now both the governor and one of our state senators (McCaskill) have gotten into the act. The governor is apparently planning to yank the country police from the scene, possibly replacing them with state officers, or even the NG (he is empowered to do so)
McCaskill was outraged over the arrest of the reporters.

I listened to an interview with one of the reporters on the local "St. Louis Talks" NPR show last night. He confirmed that they were not using the McDonalds for interviews and such, and there were only a few patrons present.
Time and again we are told that we are to expect to be filmed or recorded and that this is entirely legal so long as the people involved are not actively interfering with operations or creating a dangerous situation.

I've been involved in a lot of riot/crowd control training over my many years and I've done a fair bit of reading on the subject outside of such training.
The first full year of my employment as a police officer, back in '69, we had the very first actual "riot" in St. Louis County... At the very university I work at now.

This was the Vietnam/ROTC thing that culminated in the burning of the ROTC building. I was not at the scene, I was working the "desk" at the time, handling communications, so I was at least witness in that regard.
Years later, going to work for that university, I was informed by now-commanding officers that the situation that night was essentially caused by the arrival of the large contingent of heavily riot-equipped county officers. That the demonstrations had been ongoing and peaceful up to that point.
Prior to the big presidential debate held at our university... the three-way with Clinton, Bush, and Perot in '92....
The chief sent all us supervisors to take training from a highly-regarded expert on crowd control and riot tactics.
This guy was on a different page from apparently most in the field (and the guys running the show in Ferguson).
His idea was that the "ninja turtle guys" (fully armed and equipped tactical units) often only exacerbated these situations and that they should be held in reserve until things became actively out of control... Not on the line confronting demonstrators.

That's pretty much what we did at the debate when a very large crowd of rag-tag protesters marched down the main thoroghfare to confront the police line. This was Ralph Nader and his crowd, and every other anarchist, tax-protestor, and generally-disenchanted type for a hundred miles around.
We had some 600 fully-equipped tac unit troops on hand.... In the big garage just West. The "line" was ordinarily-equipped police officers and guys (like myself) on bikes. The protestors chanted, sang, waved banners, got their TV-15 minutes... And dispersed.
A couple of the more-radical anarchist types tried to do an end run around police lines and were caught by St. Louis police at the East end of campus.

I thought it went pretty well.

Now, more than 20 years later......Lessons do not appear to have been learned.

Regarding the "militarization" of us police.... I've commented on this before. Police are being increasingly called upon to do military-style operations. With Columbine, with the North Hollywood bank robbery, ordinary patrol officers are frequently being thrust into situations that require military tactics and weapons.
With the "active shooter" doctrine becoming the paradigm, we (front-line patrol officers) are expected to "go in and engage" the active shooter.
Waiting for specialized units means more deaths.

In order to carry out these operations, we need appropriate weapons and tactics. These are exactly the sort of things our lads in Iraq and Afghanistan do. Small-unit tactics, maneuvering and room-clearing, supressing fire... All of those things.
Most all squad cars now have an "AR" type rifle. The "patrol rifle" has largely replaced the old standard shotgun.
We are told that we are part of "Homeland Security". Part of our more-advanced training is to be able to deploy with other departments to work in coordination in case of a large-scale Mumbai-type attack.
Let me tell you, Mumbai turned a lot of heads. This would be an easy and inexpensive attack to mount. A couple of dozen attackers, with small arms only, managed to terrorize an entire large city for a considerable amount of time, even in the face of fairly massive response.
These sorts of things are part of the landscape now. So, we have to have the ability.

However, the deployment in Ferguson by these very same "ninja turtle" guys is clearly exacerbating the situation....
 
...not even an executive editor of one of the world's leading newspapers is should be taken at his word as an appropriate authority on legal and/or constitutional matters.

Think about what you're saying. We're not discussing legal and/or constitutional matters in general, we're discussing them in relation to the press. An executive editor of one of the world's leading newspapers shouldn't be considered an appropriate authority regarding the laws under which the press operates?

Wouldn't an experienced editor of a major newspaper be likely to be well-versed in what reporters can and can't do? In what conduct police can and can't control. Isn't this an issue you would expect an editor on a major daily to be professionally involved with, to have discussed in detail with the paper's legal staff?

The fact that it turned out he DID know what he was talking about, is that irrelevant? :confused:
 
It seems to have gotten to the point that it's safer to be a reporter in Gaza, or Syria, or Iraq than in Ferguson. I can only imagine these Al Jazeera reporters are thinking, "Wow, and you think the Middle East is scary?"
Not really, some reporters in the Middle East are in jail and dead.

At a local Starbucks this morning I heard two Sacramento City Police officers discussing Ferguson,and the attitude of both toeare the Ferguson plice were "What a bunch of incompetent idiots.".
It does seem that way.

From your link:
Hrm. What does that mean? Have they not taken all the witness statements yet?
It is at least a better reason than, they are hiding bad news.

Well, that & tear gassing/firing rubber bullets at a news crew that was clearly a news crew & identified themselves as such.
Followed by lowering the lights and pointing the camera to the ground.:rolleyes:

It's back in the thread, Dorian Johnson was a trifle bit wary of coming forward at first. That would be consistent with the story he had to tell. That was a couple of days ago though.

Here's an article from when he came forward. That's the third different spelling of his name that I've seen.
But he was talking to news crews the day it happened. I saw his statement. He's added a few details as the days went on but his first story was consistent with his current one.


Governor is replacing the local police with the Highway Patrol. Broderick Crawford will set them straight.:p
 
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Just a few bits....

An incredible thank you for your comments. I have not had an opportunity to talk to the few police officers I know about this yet (and of them is long retired).

But what I really wanted to know was:
However, the deployment in Ferguson by these very same "ninja turtle" guys is clearly exacerbating the situation....
Even before exacerbating the situation, did you think the "Ninja Turtles" were an appropriate response in the first place?
 
Some pictures of the Al-Jazeera crew raid (source is FARK, so some skepticism is warranted):

iy3MiTN.jpg
 
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