Michael Brown Shooting

[Unabogie]

I see no order to return above... No wonder he shot him.

From SG's post above...
"[snip] I was thinking the police must be missing, then he kept coming toward him.""

What was the police officer "missing", himself, his shoes, his car keys or Michael Brown? How was he "missing" him? Were they childhood friends he hadn't seen in many years whom him longed to re-associate with, or was he firing a weapon at him? I think we can agree it's safe to say he was shooting his weapon at him, and possibly not hitting him is what is implied by, " I was thinking the police must be missing, then he kept coming toward him." right?
Again, speaking only for myself, I don't care what the cop is saying, if he's shooting AT me, I'm looking for cover or being as motionless as possible, with my hands in the air as high as I can reach. The last thing I'm doing is walking toward him. But, then again, I'm just Mike!, not Superman or Michael Brown, and ALL of this is hearsay, including anyone who testifies on TV, for now.

Well, this latest witness says he (Brown) was shouting "don't shoot!" and then went down to his knees before getting shot in the head.

I'm not sure how in any of these witnesses' descriptions we can say that Mike Brown did anything but attempt to surrender. The fact that he turned around with his hands up is pretty dispositive. And of course, since the FPD has refused (for no good reason) to release the incident report, we don't know what Officer Wilson's initial version of what happened was. I have zero confidence that the version of the story they end up with will have not been backdated as necessary. This is why Jackson's handling of this situation has been so poor. He should have released this info on day one and let the chips fall where they may. By hiding the incident report, he's just fueling suspicion and mistrust.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

One thing this thread clearly illustrates is, something black leaders have mentioned, within a certain segment of whites their hostility towards young black men is off the charts. The malevolence in this thread is disturbing -- though not surprising -- and the people expressing it seem to be doing so without really being aware their emotions are on display. In fact this is one of the most emotional threads I've seen in a long long time. There was even a furor in this thread last night when I referred to Brown as a teenager.

I haven't seen much of this at all. As a matter of fact, in my view it is quite the opposite. I'm seeing people trying to minimize and discount the crime we do know Brown committed, apparently out of fear of being labeled a racist.

 

[mgidm86]

I do.

It reads like something out of a movie. Perhaps in future versions she'll want to add something about him clasping his hands together and tearfully telling the officer about starting college next week, and how he just wants to hug his mamma again.

I find it telling that she apparently hasn't shared her name or her account with police up to this point.



It's not that it would be bad, it's that it is hard to believe. It strains credulity.

Again, I am prepared to believe the officer executed Brown after he knew Brown to no longer be a threat, simply out of racist bloodlust and in retribution for an earlier, concluded attack. I just am going to require some pretty convincing and clear evidence of that. And that does not include improbable, emotional, cinematic accounts from the same neighbors who likely would be telling officers they didn't see anything if it had been Dorian Johnson who shot down Michael Brown out there.

I agree that this womans story sounds like bull. A cop executing a man on his knees, hands up in front of witnesses...does that happen in real life? I'm not taking sides on the overall story yet, but this sounds almost silly.

The video with the background conversation is interesting in that this is the only account given by someone who didn't know they were being recorded. We don't know that he actually saw what he's reporting, but it sounds like he did from his description. He knew a lot of details for someone who'd heard it second hand. It's pretty easy to hear. But who knows.

If cops are doing executions like this woman claims then they should be executed themselves. Her story sounds extreme though.


Whether or not a shot was fired in the car may be one of very few pieces of evidence that would explain any of this. So far it's just a lot of emotion.

 

[johnny karate]

I haven't seen much of this at all. As a matter of fact, in my view it is quite the opposite. I'm seeing people trying to minimize and discount the crime we do know Brown committed, apparently out of fear of being labeled a racist.

It might also be getting minimized because it has no bearing on whether or not Officer Wilson was justified in shooting and killing Brown.

 

[Cylinder]

One thing this thread clearly illustrates is, something black leaders have mentioned, within a certain segment of whites their hostility towards young black men is off the charts.

Just to be really clear about this, thugs like Brown victimize predominately within their own racial and economic community. It's not the black chemical engineer at Pfizer that had to face Michael Brown on a day-to-day basis and it's not some white shift supervisor working for GM.

 

[mgidm86]

I haven't seen much of this at all. As a matter of fact, in my view it is quite the opposite. I'm seeing people trying to minimize and discount the crime we do know Brown committed, apparently out of fear of being labeled a racist.

If you are referring to the robbery, I would actually think that would potentially have a lot to do with the situation. It might have a lot to do with Brown's emotional state at the time, and how the altercation ensued. Apparently the cop didn't know he was a suspect, but perhaps Brown thought he did. Maybe not, but I wouldn't say the robbery had nothing to do with it. Seems like a big coincidence. Real big.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

If you are referring to the robbery, I would actually think that would potentially have a lot to do with the situation. It might have a lot to do with Brown's emotional state at the time, and how the altercation ensued. Apparently the cop didn't know he was a suspect, but perhaps Brown thought he did. Maybe not, but I wouldn't say the robbery had nothing to do with it. Seems like a big coincidence. Real big.

I'd completely agree. It'd be very hard to argue otherwise.

 

[Brainster]

I haven't seen much of this at all. As a matter of fact, in my view it is quite the opposite. I'm seeing people trying to minimize and discount the crime we do know Brown committed, apparently out of fear of being labeled a so they can accuse others of being racist.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Unabogie]

Fixed that for you.

Are you going to claim that we haven't seen actual, no holds barred racism in this thread?

 

[Mumbles]

If you are referring to the robbery, I would actually think that would potentially have a lot to do with the situation. It might have a lot to do with Brown's emotional state at the time, and how the altercation ensued. Apparently the cop didn't know he was a suspect, but perhaps Brown thought he did. Maybe not, but I wouldn't say the robbery had nothing to do with it. Seems like a big coincidence. Real big.

A big part of the problem is, we simply don't have the officer's side of the story. We have various stories from the local police chief, yes, but I think that the report from the actual officer would tell us much more clearly what happened.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I see no order to return above, only to "Freeze!, Turn around with your hands in the air!" ... No wonder he shot him.

From SG's post above...
"[snip] I was thinking the police must be missing, then he kept coming toward him.""

What was the police officer "missing", himself, his shoes, his car keys or Michael Brown? How was he "missing" him? Were they childhood friends he hadn't seen in many years whom him longed to re-associate with, or was he firing a weapon at him? ...

So in your version, it's much more likely an unarmed Brown would aggressively charge at an armed officer 30 feet away who was firing his weapon? That's logical to you?

Or are you trying to say Brown's death was his own fault because he wasn't smart as you believe you would have been?

I can't imagine any reasonable scenario that Brown would charge the cop except turning around to surrender. I can imagine Brown running out of initial fear after being shot, realizing after a few more seconds to think that he wasn't going to make it and trying to surrender.

I can also imagine Wilson, hyped on adrenalin, believing Brown was a threat, seeing a weapon that wasn't there. Imagining that big scary black kid was dangerous despite the fact Wilson was tens of feet away and Wilson had a drawn weapon. I can imagine Wilson shooting at first out the car window either accidentally or because Brown was tussling with him. Then shooting unnecessarily without thinking in the heat of the moment chasing Brown.

Wilson made mistake after mistake and given the fatal consequences, should be held accountable. What level that accountability should be depends on that autopsy.

 

[KatieG]

So the feeling here is that, regardless of what on the scene witnesses say, they won't be believed because they're black and they won't tell the truth? Interesting. I'll put this out here:

"So far, I've seen three eyewitnesses tell one story.... and one police chief tell three stories."
- @candacetx on Twitter

 

[Brainster]

Are you going to claim that we haven't seen actual, no holds barred racism in this thread?

From one poster. We've seen a lot more no holds barred anti-cop posters.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Are you going to claim that we haven't seen actual, no holds barred racism in this thread?

Not sure why your jaw is dropping.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

A big part of the problem is, we simply don't have the officer's side of the story. We have various stories from the local police chief, yes, but I think that the report from the actual officer would tell us much more clearly what happened.

Correct, and a lot of this thread is just speculation.

I think we'll have a better idea of a lot of the details in the next week or so.

 

[ehcks]

From one poster. We've seen a lot more no holds barred anti-cop posters.

I was called anti-cop for suggesting that they should have cameras as part of their uniforms, so I'm going to deny this claim.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Are you going to claim that we haven't seen actual, no holds barred racism in this thread?

Brainster and several others truly cannot see their underlying racism. They won't examine the underlying premises that turn a single shove of a store clerk into a "roughing up"; "violent felon"; "strong armed robbery" not just technically but literally.

If one says the crime was minor or petty, that equals dismissing the crime altogether. If one says the cop used unnecessary force, that means we hate all cops.

If Brown was a petty criminal, that must be evidence he would fight with a cop and turn around and charge the shooting officer, not turn around and surrender.

 

[Unabogie]

Not sure why your jaw is dropping.

Because I find it incredible that anyone would deny the amount of racism on display here.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

So the feeling here is that, regardless of what on the scene witnesses say, they won't be believed because they're black and they won't tell the truth? Interesting. I'll put this out here:

"So far, I've seen three eyewitnesses tell one story.... and one police chief tell three stories."
- @candacetx on Twitter

Good observation.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Well, this latest witness says he (Brown) was shouting "don't shoot!" and then went down to his knees before getting shot in the head.

I'm not sure how in any of these witnesses' descriptions we can say that Mike Brown did anything but attempt to surrender. The fact that he turned around with his hands up is pretty dispositive. And of course, since the FPD has refused (for no good reason) to release the incident report, we don't know what Officer Wilson's initial version of what happened was. I have zero confidence that the version of the story they end up with will have not been backdated as necessary. This is why Jackson's handling of this situation has been so poor. He should have released this info on day one and let the chips fall where they may. By hiding the incident report, he's just fueling suspicion and mistrust.

"No good reason" ? Ha!

Let me explain something here. When there is an ongoing, active investigation with eyewitnesses apparently still surfacing (according to you yourself) there is VERY good reason not to release materials related to that investigation until it has concluded, or at least the evidence gathering phase has concluded.

This can be illustrated easily:

Cops release officer Wilson's account of events right away, within a day or two of the shooting, such that you and others are satisfied it was released promptly.

A week later, a witness surfaces saying he saw the whole thing, and the account he gives feels to investigators like it might have been informed by reading Wilson's account. Either tailored to match it and support Wilson, or tailored to match it just enough to buy credibility, and then wildly diverge on a point which puts Wilson in the hot seat.

Now do you get it?

A society that starts letting wild, impassioned mobs and sensationalist media dictate the schedule of evidence release in an ongoing investigation, is a society which has truly lost any sense of the rule of law, and is in serious trouble.