KatieG
Rootin' Tootin' Raspberry
Do we know this is a fact or just a figment of the police officers imagination? I would expect to see pictures of the officer with serious injuries. Have you seen any such pictures?
Michael Brown Shooting
- Thread starter Unabogie
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Do we know this is a fact or just a figment of the police officers imagination? I would expect to see pictures of the officer with serious injuries. Have you seen any such pictures?
Distracted1
Philosopher
The duty of a policeman is not simply self defense. They are expected to apprehend those who are a threat to others. The behavior of Mr. Brown qualifies him as a violent felon, and a threat to others.
KatieG
Rootin' Tootin' Raspberry
We're already living in that country. Do try to keep up.
Here's my OCR version of the police report referencing the strongarm robbery:
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Ferguson Police Department
222 S Florissant Road
Ferguson, MO 63135
Offense / Incident Report
Report Date: 08/09/2014
Type of Incident: Robbery(F) 2ND Strongarm-Convenience Sto
Complaint No.: 1 4—12338
Case Status: Exceptionally Cleared
[ED: Form heading unreadable. Probably complainant]
Name: [redacted]
Relationship: Manager
Race/Sex/DOB: [redacted]
SUSPECT
Name: Brown, Miceal
Race: B
Sex: M
DOB: 05/20/1996
Age: 18
SSN: [redacted]
Moniker: Mike
[ED: I've omitted the suspect personal information to comply with my interpretation of Rule 3.]
DL: [ED: See reference above.]
Type: Permit
State: MO
Expires: 09/18/2013
Restriction: Expired
Marital Status: Single
Resident Status: Resident
Ethnicity: Non-Hispanic
DESCRIPTION
Height: 6-04
Weight: 292
Build: Heavy
Skin Color: Brown
Complexion: Dark
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Black
Hair Length: Short
Hair Style: Afro
[Ed: Heading unreadable. Possibly clothing description]
Item Type/Color/Markings:
Ball Cap/Red/Cardinals Baseball Cap
Shorts/Tan/Khaki Long Shorts
Socks/Yellow/Yellow Socks
T-Shirt/White/White T-Shirt
Sandles/----/Flip=Flop Type Shoes
Charge: Robbery(F) 2ND Strongarm-Convenience Sto
Type/Class: F B
SUSPECT INFORMATION
Name: JOHNSON, DORIAN J
Race: B
Sex: M
DOB: 01/15/1992
Age: 22
SSN: [redacted]
[ED: I've omitted the suspect personal information to comply with my interpretation of Rule 3.]
DL: [ED: See note above]
Type: ID Only
State: MO
Expires: 01/15/2016
Marital Status: SINGLE
Resident Status: Resident
Ethnicity: Non_Hispanic
Height: 5-05
Weight: 120
Build: THIN/SLIM
Skin Color: BROWN
Complexion: DARK
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Black
Hair Length: Long:
Hair Style: Dreadlocks
Charge: Robbery(F) 2ND Strongarm-Convenience Sto
Type/Class: F B
NARRATIVE
On 08/09/2014 at approximately 1151 hours, while on a call in the Park Ridge apartment complex, immediately located behind [redacted] I received a call for a stealing in progress at [redacted] W Florissant Ave. I responded to that location and was given a description by dispatch of a B/M in a white t-shirt that was walking northbound on W Florissant, toward Quiktrip ( W Florissant ave). I did not see the suspect in the area, so I returned to [redacted] to contact the employee there. I contacted [redacted] on the parking lot, who continued to point up W Florissant toward Quiktrip and say, "He went that way." He was indicating with his hands toward his chest and then north on W Florissant. I still could not see the suspect on W Florissant, and [redacted] went inside to contact a [redacted] clerk, who was not identified at that time, and [redacted], [redacted] patron, who was not identified at that time, who advised the suspect took cigars and pushed [redacted] on his way out. He was wearing a white t-shirt, khaki longer shorts, yellow socks, and a red Cardinals ball cap. They also stated that another B/M was with him, but gave no further description on that suspect. I gave out this information over the radio and drove northbound on W Florissant to try to find the suspect. I did not locate the suspects on W Florissant, so i went into Quiktrip to search for the suspects, and did not locate them.
Anything further will be submitted in a supplementary report.
[ED: Supplementary report begins here]
Pursuant to the original report, the following information is pertinent. On Monday, 08/11/2014 @ 0900hrs, l was assigned to this investigation. [redacted] had just come out of the restroom and returned to the counter where she observed brown tell [redacted],that he (Brown) wanted several boxes of cigars. As [redacted] was placing the boxes on the counter, Brown grabbed a box of Swisher Sweet cigars and handed them to Johnson who was standing behind brown. [redacted] witnessed [redacted] tell Brown that he had to pay for those cigars first. That is when Brown reached across the counter and grabbed numerous packs of Swisher Sweets and turned to the leave the store. [redacted] calls "911", meanwhile, [redacted] comes out from behind the counter and attempts to stop Brown from leaving. According to [redacted], was trying to lock the door until brown returned the merchandise to him. That is when Brown grabbed [redacted] by the shirt and forcefully pushed him back in to a display rack. [redacted] backed away and Brown and Johnson exited the store with the cigars.
I then had the opportunity to review a copy of the video surveillance footage which captured the following events. The date and time stamps correspond to the video footage provided. The entire incident takes place on Saturday, 08/09/2014 between 11:52:58hrs and 11:54:00 hrs.
Camera 3 - Exterior camera mounted on southwest corner of building, pointed east to record side of building and parking lot
Camera 6 - Interior camera mounted on ceiling to record entry/exit doors
Camera 7 - interior camera mounted on ceiling to record counter/register
The video reveals brown enter the store followed by Johnson. Brown approaches the register with Johnson standing behind him. [redacted] can be seen in the background walking from the restroom to behind the counter. Brown hands a box of swisher sweets to Johnson. An apparent struggle or confrontation seems to take place with Brown, however it is obscured by a display case on the counter. Meanwhile, Johnson sets the box he was handed back on the counter. Brown turns away from the counter with another box of Swisher Sweet cigars and walks towards the exit door.
[redacted] then comes out from behind the counter, with what appears to be a set of keys in his hands.
[redacted] then stands between brown and the exit door. Brown, still holding a box of Swisher Sweets in his right hand, grabs [redacted] by his shirt with his left hand. Brown aggressively pulls [redacted] in close to him and then immediately pushes him back in to a display rack. Johnson continues out the door and out of camera frame. [redacted], no longer between Brown and the door, stops and watches Brown as he walks towards the exit door. Brown then abruptly turns back around and advances on [redacted]. Brown towers over [redacted] appearing to intimidate him. Brown then turns back around and walks out of camera view.
It is worth mentioning that this incident is related to another incident detailed under Ferguson Police report # 2014-12391 as well as St. Louis county police report # 2014-43984. In that incident, Brown was fatally wounded involving an officer of this department. I responded to that scene and observed Brown. After viewing brown and reviewing this video, i was able to confirm that Brown is the primary suspect in this incident. A second person, also at that scene, identified himself as being with Brown. That person was later identified as Dorian Johnson. After observing Johnson and reviewing the video, i confirmed he is the second suspect in this incident.
A disc containing the 911 call made by [redacted] was obtained from police communications.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ferguson Police Department
222 S Florissant Road
Ferguson, MO 63135
Offense / Incident Report
Report Date: 08/09/2014
Type of Incident: Robbery(F) 2ND Strongarm-Convenience Sto
Complaint No.: 1 4—12338
Case Status: Exceptionally Cleared
[ED: Form heading unreadable. Probably complainant]
Name: [redacted]
Relationship: Manager
Race/Sex/DOB: [redacted]
SUSPECT
Name: Brown, Miceal
Race: B
Sex: M
DOB: 05/20/1996
Age: 18
SSN: [redacted]
Moniker: Mike
[ED: I've omitted the suspect personal information to comply with my interpretation of Rule 3.]
DL: [ED: See reference above.]
Type: Permit
State: MO
Expires: 09/18/2013
Restriction: Expired
Marital Status: Single
Resident Status: Resident
Ethnicity: Non-Hispanic
DESCRIPTION
Height: 6-04
Weight: 292
Build: Heavy
Skin Color: Brown
Complexion: Dark
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Black
Hair Length: Short
Hair Style: Afro
[Ed: Heading unreadable. Possibly clothing description]
Item Type/Color/Markings:
Ball Cap/Red/Cardinals Baseball Cap
Shorts/Tan/Khaki Long Shorts
Socks/Yellow/Yellow Socks
T-Shirt/White/White T-Shirt
Sandles/----/Flip=Flop Type Shoes
Charge: Robbery(F) 2ND Strongarm-Convenience Sto
Type/Class: F B
SUSPECT INFORMATION
Name: JOHNSON, DORIAN J
Race: B
Sex: M
DOB: 01/15/1992
Age: 22
SSN: [redacted]
[ED: I've omitted the suspect personal information to comply with my interpretation of Rule 3.]
DL: [ED: See note above]
Type: ID Only
State: MO
Expires: 01/15/2016
Marital Status: SINGLE
Resident Status: Resident
Ethnicity: Non_Hispanic
Height: 5-05
Weight: 120
Build: THIN/SLIM
Skin Color: BROWN
Complexion: DARK
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Black
Hair Length: Long:
Hair Style: Dreadlocks
Charge: Robbery(F) 2ND Strongarm-Convenience Sto
Type/Class: F B
NARRATIVE
On 08/09/2014 at approximately 1151 hours, while on a call in the Park Ridge apartment complex, immediately located behind [redacted] I received a call for a stealing in progress at [redacted] W Florissant Ave. I responded to that location and was given a description by dispatch of a B/M in a white t-shirt that was walking northbound on W Florissant, toward Quiktrip ( W Florissant ave). I did not see the suspect in the area, so I returned to [redacted] to contact the employee there. I contacted [redacted] on the parking lot, who continued to point up W Florissant toward Quiktrip and say, "He went that way." He was indicating with his hands toward his chest and then north on W Florissant. I still could not see the suspect on W Florissant, and [redacted] went inside to contact a [redacted] clerk, who was not identified at that time, and [redacted], [redacted] patron, who was not identified at that time, who advised the suspect took cigars and pushed [redacted] on his way out. He was wearing a white t-shirt, khaki longer shorts, yellow socks, and a red Cardinals ball cap. They also stated that another B/M was with him, but gave no further description on that suspect. I gave out this information over the radio and drove northbound on W Florissant to try to find the suspect. I did not locate the suspects on W Florissant, so i went into Quiktrip to search for the suspects, and did not locate them.
Anything further will be submitted in a supplementary report.
[ED: Supplementary report begins here]
Pursuant to the original report, the following information is pertinent. On Monday, 08/11/2014 @ 0900hrs, l was assigned to this investigation. [redacted] had just come out of the restroom and returned to the counter where she observed brown tell [redacted],that he (Brown) wanted several boxes of cigars. As [redacted] was placing the boxes on the counter, Brown grabbed a box of Swisher Sweet cigars and handed them to Johnson who was standing behind brown. [redacted] witnessed [redacted] tell Brown that he had to pay for those cigars first. That is when Brown reached across the counter and grabbed numerous packs of Swisher Sweets and turned to the leave the store. [redacted] calls "911", meanwhile, [redacted] comes out from behind the counter and attempts to stop Brown from leaving. According to [redacted], was trying to lock the door until brown returned the merchandise to him. That is when Brown grabbed [redacted] by the shirt and forcefully pushed him back in to a display rack. [redacted] backed away and Brown and Johnson exited the store with the cigars.
I then had the opportunity to review a copy of the video surveillance footage which captured the following events. The date and time stamps correspond to the video footage provided. The entire incident takes place on Saturday, 08/09/2014 between 11:52:58hrs and 11:54:00 hrs.
Camera 3 - Exterior camera mounted on southwest corner of building, pointed east to record side of building and parking lot
Camera 6 - Interior camera mounted on ceiling to record entry/exit doors
Camera 7 - interior camera mounted on ceiling to record counter/register
The video reveals brown enter the store followed by Johnson. Brown approaches the register with Johnson standing behind him. [redacted] can be seen in the background walking from the restroom to behind the counter. Brown hands a box of swisher sweets to Johnson. An apparent struggle or confrontation seems to take place with Brown, however it is obscured by a display case on the counter. Meanwhile, Johnson sets the box he was handed back on the counter. Brown turns away from the counter with another box of Swisher Sweet cigars and walks towards the exit door.
[redacted] then comes out from behind the counter, with what appears to be a set of keys in his hands.
[redacted] then stands between brown and the exit door. Brown, still holding a box of Swisher Sweets in his right hand, grabs [redacted] by his shirt with his left hand. Brown aggressively pulls [redacted] in close to him and then immediately pushes him back in to a display rack. Johnson continues out the door and out of camera frame. [redacted], no longer between Brown and the door, stops and watches Brown as he walks towards the exit door. Brown then abruptly turns back around and advances on [redacted]. Brown towers over [redacted] appearing to intimidate him. Brown then turns back around and walks out of camera view.
It is worth mentioning that this incident is related to another incident detailed under Ferguson Police report # 2014-12391 as well as St. Louis county police report # 2014-43984. In that incident, Brown was fatally wounded involving an officer of this department. I responded to that scene and observed Brown. After viewing brown and reviewing this video, i was able to confirm that Brown is the primary suspect in this incident. A second person, also at that scene, identified himself as being with Brown. That person was later identified as Dorian Johnson. After observing Johnson and reviewing the video, i confirmed he is the second suspect in this incident.
A disc containing the 911 call made by [redacted] was obtained from police communications.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Distracted1
Philosopher
How serious need they be?
It is the act of assaulting, not the results of it that make it a crime.
One shot was reportedly fired inside the vehicle. It seems plausible that is when Mr. Brown went from " violent felon " to " fleeing violent felon "
The police have no right to find anyone legally guilty or to sentence them! They do have a right to prevent serious harm to themselves or to others. See the difference? Now convince me that Brown 35 feet away was a direct threat in this way. Also although cops are expected to think fast (and 35 feet proves a lot of time to think) I might be convinced that the cop did not intend the killing. But killing someone under those circumstances is still a crime. You seem to think that it wasn't. It was a crime even in your imaginary scenario.
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2007
- Messages
- 18,528
Can you cite the penal code that indicates this? Because I was always under the impression it took a far more serious crime to warrant a death sentence.
You just described attempted murder. In case you forgot, we were discussing assault.
I Am The Scum
Philosopher
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Messages
- 5,796
I don't think this was pre-meditated murder.
I am going to speculate:
The officer probably was giving the jaywalkers a rougher time than he needed to. Brown probably talked back and the officer responded aggressively to his authority being challenged.
Take a look at this video if you haven't done so already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgWrV8TcUc
Imagine Brown being in this kid's position, only significantly less patient. It's easy to see how it could quickly get out of hand. Maybe it got to the point that the cop put his hands on Brown for no good reason. Maybe he even drew his gun and pointed it at Brown (something we've seen tons of cops doing the over the week). And you kinda know the rest.
Yes, this is speculation, but to my knowledge, it does not contradict any facts or witness accounts, other than the one coming from the PD.
Distracted1
Philosopher
Apparently they do it brazenly in broad daylight as well.
Distracted1
Philosopher
They also have an obligation to apprehend fleeing felons.
This is not about self defense, it is about policing.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
No, not at all. The cop knew nothing of a connection of Brown to the Strong Armed Robbery according to the chief of police. And if Brown did scuffle with the cop (according to the cop, but not to all eye witnesses) then Brown was still not a clear threat to anyone enough while running away to have been legally shot. Finally, Brown was not a felon, in that he had never been convicted of this crime in a court of law. The cop does not have a right to convict anyone, let alone shoot them. The assumption must be that Brown is innocent, but innocent or not, that is not for the police to decide..
Distracted1
Philosopher
Browns companion apparently had no issue simply stepping to the sidewalk. Yet your pure speculation has the officer acting as the aggressor ?
You use a YouTube video of an aggressive cop, who is not a principle in this event, to stereotype police behavior, meanwhile video clearly depicting the aggressive nature of Mr. Brown on the very day of the incident does nothing to convince you that he is anything other than a " gentle giant ".
It appears to me you have some issues of prejudice with regards to this.
They are expected to apprehend those guilty of a violent crime, but in most cases that has to be done by means short of shooting them to death.
Distracted1
Philosopher
Police are supposed to act aggressively to challenges to their authority, btw. That's how it works, and why they come off as dicks so often. Their first order of business is to establish control over a situation, until that happens nothing else has priority.
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 21,956
Suppose a cop sees a guy shoot another cop. Does the first cop then have the right to shoot the fleeing shooter? Apparently not, according to the logic of your post, because the fleeing shooter has never been convicted of the crime in a court of law, and the presumption must be that the fleeing person is innocent.
Do you begin to see the problem here?
Distracted1
Philosopher
But in some cases it includes that option.
How many people who steal cigars also kill cops? Statistically, as you are invoking?
Only I f they are an immediate and direct threat of violent to others at the time of the shooting. What is the evidence that Mr. Brown fits this description?
Distracted1
Philosopher
He didn't need to know anything about the robbery to know he was dealing with a violent felon once Mr. Brown committed a violent felony by attacking him.
Violent felons are a threat to the rest of us by virtue of being.........
..........you guessed it!.......
...................violent felons.
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