Michael Brown shooting II

[Skeptic Ginger]

I think you're entirely missing the point, which is that the word is just - and only - what it is, despite some folks or groups of folks trying to usurp it for their own purposes at various points in time.

As I said previously, a thug is a thug is a thug. It has nothing to do with being white, black, yellow, red, brown, or otherwise.

Various groups of people have tried in the past to make the word "thug" be about specific "others" for their own purposes, but it didn't work then and it should not work now.

So does stealing cigars and shoving the store clerk make one a thug?

 

[Mumbles]

So does stealing cigars and shoving the store clerk make one a thug?

Or talking loudly in an interview?

Or sitting in a car and listening to loud music?

Or "walking around, looking about"?

I'll only note that everyone objecting to the note that "thug" has become a racial slur, *still* have given no explanation for why it was used for Richard Sherman, Trayvon Martin, or Jordan Davis.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...
You're saying it happened without demonstrating it's what happened. This is like pulling teeth. Can you at least try to sound reasonable? Maybe Wilson didn't commit a crime...

You're saying it didn't happen by making the unfounded assumption the witness must be lying. "Get the eff off the street" sounds like a jerk to me.

...Unless the police have said otherwise, as far as I know Wilson could have fired only one round as Brown and Johnson fled. I highly doubt that Wilson would have reloaded after shooting his weapon only two or three times.

So he only lets off a volley of two, at first. Was his trigger finger getting warmed up?

...This has been explained. More than once. Brown charges/bum rushes/comes at [Wilson], and Wilson squeezes off six rounds (probably accounting for most of the wounds to the right side of Brown's body). Brown keeps coming, Wilson fires four more times.

But but Skeptic Tank says no one is arguing the bull-rushing theory because it's so far fetched.

So it's the magic bullet theory for you then, magically ignore the autopsy and stick with your preferred version of events. I see.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That claim comes from the purported audio of the event, though some are claiming 10 shots from the same audio file.

No, ten shots plus one from the car window not on the recording.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Remember the FOIA request?
That's what makes it different.

So you think there has been no FOIA request for Wilson's statement? For the first autopsy? For the evidence from the scene?

 

[davefoc]

As another data point here, I did not realize there was any racial connotation to the use of the word, thug, in modern English. I was aware a bit of the origin and if there was any racist/racial issues with the use of the word I would have guessed that it was related to that. Sort of like the word, gyp, being derived from Gypsy.

The only way "Thug" as a descriptor is racist is by a racist definition of the word by a racist.

I had some thoughts along those lines. Is it racist to accept a racial connotation assignment to a word with a negative meaning? In the case of gyp, the word was derived from a racial term and it seems reasonable once that is understood to stop using the term out of respect for a racial group. Thug seems to have originated as a word used to describe an individual that engages is violent actions for intimidation or criminal purposes. Accepting its transition as a term for blacks seems like it might be racist in itself.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Just to clarify before I respond:

Are you proposing that there are situations where reaching for the gun in another persons pocket/holster is "more easily accessible" than reaching for the gun in your own pocket/holster?

You suggested it would not be logical; and I'm pretty sure I can think any number of situations where it would be.

And that the situation in this topic is one of them?

Again, you brought it up, but I am not aware that it pertains to the Michael Brown shooting.

If you want to posit that he had a gun in his pocket, I can certainly imagine a scenario where going for Wilson's gun would have been easier than digging one out of a pocket..

I really don't want to play ' what if ' , but you brought it up, and it is not logical for you to rule out any possible situation where one or the other is more realistic...

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Display of aggressive ghetto attitude expressed in poor English. Attempt to be intimidating.

Felony strong-arm robbery, assault, drug use, possible attempted murder, resisting arrest, etc.

Felony assault, attempted murder, burglary, drug abuse, sale of drugs, illegal firearms deals, possible rape eluded to in texts, misogyny, vandalism, trespassing, fights, blood thirst toward snitches, etc.

Friends admitted he launched into loud, aggressive, angry, profanity-laced verbal tirade at Dunn after an admittedly polite request to turn volume of blasting gangster rap with lyrics about violence down. Accused of making death threats and possibly brandishing a weapon or something he hoped would be taken for a weapon by Dunn.

And how do you describe Clive Bundy and his supporters?

 

[dudalb]

Thug means a criminal using violent means to get his way without any reference to his race.That is the standard definition,and I will stick by that no matter what the SJW say.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Doesn't the fact that you quoted the KKK saying "black thugs" imply that even to them, thug does not necessarily mean black? You don't hear them talking about black *******, just *******.

Precisely...

So does stealing cigars and shoving the store clerk make one a thug?

It does to me...

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Is that what it has come to now ? You are make up a scenario based on no evidence and ask people to disprove it ?

And a woman with an outlandish tale about wilson is now evidence to hang your hat on, but people at the scene discussing what just happened caught on camera are suspect.

The double standard being displayed here is pretty extraordinary.

I cited the evidence. You can call that no evidence but it doesn't make it so.

The police in the area have a history of racism and corruption. That is the default position. One needs to show Wilson was somehow exempt from the usual behavior of his peers, especially in case of the Jennings department scandal where Wilson learned how to be a cop.

 

[Mumbles]

And how do you describe Clive Bundy and his supporters?

Oh, he replied. I'll revise what I said: Nobody who claims that "thug" isn't a code-word, and who doesn't openly espouse white supremacy has explained why people called Richard Sherman, Jordan Davis, or Trayvon Martin a thug.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

LashL is correct. I have decided to stop using the word thug to describe Brown's behavior because some people find it a racist term.
But it isn't.
You're endeavoring to create a special meaning for the term, which is equally applied to thugs of all races. I can recall a specific NRA instance of Wayne LaPierre using the term jack-booted thugs to describe government agents and he wasn't talking about the scary black man.

You have to reconsider thinking of it as a code word. It's not.

The word has become a racist epithet. You should probably get out more before declaring facts about the current use of words like this.

The fact you can find the issue discussed all over the Net suggests there is something going on. You may not like it or agree with it, but more than a few people recognize it is commonly used with racism connotation whether the people using it can see their racism or not.

For example, how many white football players have been called thugs before Sherman was called one? Did a single news outlet call Clive Bundy a thug?

 

[This is The End]

The only way "Thug" as a descriptor is racist is by a racist definition of the word by a racist.

Oh, you mean: "The only way "Spook" as a descriptor is racist is by a racist definition of the word by a racist." Yep, that is sound logic!!

 

[This is The End]

Thug means a criminal using violent means to get his way without any reference to his race.That is the standard definition,and I will stick by that no matter what the SJW say.

Oh, you mean: "Tweet means a chirping sound that a small bird makes. That is the standard definition, and I will stick by it no matter what those damn teenagers say."

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The state autopsy results we have claim brown was hit 6 times from the front. Not hit from behind.
Baden says one shot may have hit brown from behind.

I say I don't believe brown was hit from behind. He was shot at from behind, but probably not hit.

This is inconsistent how ?

The highlighted part is false.

How can something say a person was hit from the front if it's not certain?

 

[This is The End]

The word has become a racist epithet. You should probably get out more before declaring facts about the current use of words like this.

To be fair, Monketey Ghost came to an agreement after making that post that, depending on the subset of people (however small), it can be polite to let someone know about the alternate meanings.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't know what any rubber bands would suggest. Dorian seems to keep some on his wrist to tie up his hair.

The loss of the bracelet suggests participation in the fight at the SUV by Dorian.

And yet no one has arrested Johnson, no witness saw that happen, there is no report Wilson said they both attacked, Wilson went right past Johnson when he chased Brown, and all this is based on a fuzzy image that might be a bracelet in the street that might have been in the store video?

That's quite the stretch.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Someone might want to point this out to Unabogie, although this has been posted numerous times in this thread...

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/crim...olice-news-conference-michael-brown/13860601/

Belmar said the incident started when Brown physically assaulted the police officer, pushing him into the officer's vehicle. He said there was a struggle inside the car, and at some point Brown reached for the officer's weapon. One shot was fired inside the vehicle.

I'm pretty sure the evidence overwhelmingly supports the conclusion Brown was never inside the vehicle and the physical exchange took place through the car window with Wilson never having made it further than opening his door.

The police chief made some comments about a struggle inside the car that seemed to me to be a misunderstanding of a hastily stated or a second hand version of events that he got.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Thug means a criminal using violent means to get his way without any reference to his race.That is the standard definition,and I will stick by that no matter what the SJW say.

What crime did Richard Sherman of the Seahawks commit?