Michael Brown shooting II

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ehcks said:
He paid for some cigars. He stole some others. No one knows why. The store never reported a theft, or a robbery, or assault, or anything else.
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Robbery victims are often too intimidated to press charges or report the crime. Especially when they have a fixed place of business in the neighborhood the robber lives.

It was a customer who reported the crime, and the store owner did eventually sign the complaint and indicate he wanted to press charges. Won't be any charges now obviously.

eta: I haven't seen anything that says he actually paid for some cigars, source?
 
It seems as if CNN anchors, among other networks, have met with Wilson off-the-record to pre-book the first interview following the announcement of findings by the grand jury. Anderson Cooper and Don Lemon -- both from CNN as is the original report of the meetings -- have confirmed the meeting with Wilson.

In the pursuit of that interview, several high-profile television anchors have secretly met with Wilson, according to sources at several TV networks. All of the meetings were off the record, meaning the anchors could not describe what was said.

These meetings are a normal part of the TV guest booking process, but they're significant in this case because Wilson has not been seen in public since Brown's death in Ferguson, Missouri on August 9.

Among the anchors who have met with Wilson are Matt Lauer of NBC, George Stephanopoulos of ABC, Scott Pelley of CBS, and Anderson Cooper and Don Lemon of CNN.

It is unclear if Wilson, through his representatives, has agreed to be interviewed by any of the journalists.​

Cooper kind of hilariously defends himself on Twitter and kind of wants people to know what side of the street he's on:



Anderson Cooper @andersoncooper
6h 6 hours ago
I'd also like to intv the grand jury. There is no conspiracy here. Reporters want to intv people and sometimes you have to meet them first
0 replies 146 retweets 292 favorites

Anderson Cooper @andersoncooper
6h 6 hours ago
Darren Wilson chose not to do an interview with me. I continue to hope to interview anyone with information about this tragedy.
0 replies 536 retweets 418 favorites

Anderson Cooper @andersoncooper
6h 6 hours ago
Prior to interviewing Donald Sterling, for example, I also met with him to ask him to do an interview. That's how you ask for an interview
0 replies 125 retweets 267 favorites

Anderson Cooper @andersoncooper
6h 6 hours ago
I've met and interviewed Mike Brown's family and have spoken numerous times on the record and off the record with Brown family attorneys
0 replies 139 retweets 192 favorites

Anderson Cooper @andersoncooper
6h 6 hours ago
For the record, I met briefly with Darren Wilson a few days ago to see if he wanted to do an interview with me. That's standard procedure
0 replies 382 retweets 286 favorites​

Donald Sterling....really?
 
Distracted1 said:
Well, once again your own reasoning betrays you.

Mr. Brown stole the cigars right in front of the store clerk, then assaulted the clerk by grabbing his neck and violently shoving him back as he was confronted at the door, as the clerk recovered his balance and began to further attempt to stop Mr. Brown, Brown turned upon the clerk and advanced upon him exhibiting intent to do further physical harm to the clerk should the clerk continue to protest. When the clerk gave in to the intimidation, Mr. Brown left the store with his stolen merchandise.

Why do you leave out those facts? Is that not an 'improper' omission?

Have you ever witnessed or been involved in that kind of robbery? I have- more than once, and I can tell you that the biggest mis-characterizations in any of the Michael Brown threads thus far are the ones that attempt to label the crime recorded on that video as "shoplifting"
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You seem to be confused. I am the one arguing for the complete story. The more complete the better. Therefore your version is splendid if it is indeed accurate. I would note that if you watch the video instead of stills he pushes the clerk by the throat, he does not "grab" the throat.


ETA: Also can you "shove someone back" while trying to escape and not have it be "violently"?


ETA Again:

You actually bring up a great point. And I am not accusing you of this but here it is already.

Both ends of the spectrum can display bias, even unwilling bias.

We already covered giving too little information. That can cause an uninformed reader to use their imagination to fill in the details. That can cause both an assumption of the worst, or an assumption of the best.

But now you bring up the other end of the spectrum. Trying to tell too much information can cause the teller to start to leave the realm of solid fact based evidence into colorful descriptors and even into guessing, whether educated guesses or not.

What we need to strive for are exact statements of solid fact based evidence. No colorful descriptors needed. Watch your adjectives! All other statements that are from supposition or from second hand knowledge, or other loosely evidenced information should always be clearly marked as such to not confuse the reader. Especially when giving a list of information or making a single statement.
 
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Cylinder said:
~1202-1203: There is a struggle in and near Wilson's patrol vehicle where one or two shots are fired by the officer, one striking Brown in the right palm nearest his thumb from contact range. [Supplemental Microscopic Examination Report]Brown and Johnson run away with Wilson in pursuit of Brown. At some point, Brown turns around and returns toward Wilson where he is shot and killed.
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I'm not sure we have solid evidence yet of the "returns toward Wilson" after the "Brown turns around". Do we?
 
OnlyTellsTruths said:
I'm not sure we have solid evidence yet of the "returns toward Wilson" after the "Brown turns around". Do we?
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That's probably a disputed element for the moment.

The (apparent) placement of shell casings nest to Brown's body is hard to explain in the context of the narrative with Brown walking away and then stopping. There's also some agreement among what's purported to be Wilson's narrative, the unintended witness recording narrative and Even Michael Brady's narrative that Brown took basically 2 or 3 steps back toward Wilson but wasn't charging or threatening.
 
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Cylinder said:
That's probably a disputed element for the moment.
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OK thanks. First of all, I very much appreciate when you compile a timeline like in post #1317. That is a good link for reference:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10338125&postcount=1317


But if you could in each individual section make clear the parts that are very solidly evidenced and the parts that are more best guesses or preponderances, perhaps with a "we believe" or "it appears" or "conflicting evidence indicates"*.

I realize that you already try and do this like when you say "one or two shots" in the below, but if I may (my edit highlighted):

Cylinder said:
~1202-1203: There is a struggle in and near Wilson's patrol vehicle where one or two shots are fired by the officer, one striking Brown in the right palm nearest his thumb from contact range. [Supplemental Microscopic Examination Report]Brown and Johnson run away with Wilson in pursuit of Brown. At some point, Brown turns around, and some evidence indicates he begins a return, toward Wilson where he is shot and killed.
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*There used to be a perfect word for that: "supposedly" But because of the evolution of English (and overuse in sarcasm) the word "supposedly" has been hijacked to have an almost guaranteed value of "false" when people hear it. So I hate to use that word anymore.
 
A very nice gesture. I hope these guys know it is appreciated and I know that they realize it is about a bigger issue in general, even if the shooting was justified.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...eason-run-two-men-road-leads-ferguson-n254601

When Londrelle Hall and Ray Mills heard about the killing of unarmed black teenager Michael Brown, they decided they wanted to do something not only to pay tribute, but also to change the image of African-American men. That's when the pair decided that they would run more than 540 miles from Atlanta to Ferguson, Missouri, in hope of making a difference.

<snip>

The two men took a few weeks to train before embarking on a journey that took them through five states in rain, sleet, hail and snow, over 20 days, running and walking about 35 miles per day, leading them to the Michael Brown memorial in Ferguson where the teen was shot.

<snip>

"Statistically, it seems like in our community we [black men] are incarcerated or doing nothing. We want to go against the grain and not be another statistic, and we wanted to inspire other people to do the same." Mills said. Hall agreed, adding, "We want to show that people who look like us can be doing something positive."
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ETA: Nice, since I posted this an hour ago it has been bumped to the very top of the default Google News page. They deserve the recognition.
 
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So earlier today the court administrator said that there's no agreement to release evidence.

For months, St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch has promised to seek a court order immediately releasing nearly all evidence before the grand jury in the Michael Brown shooting case if Officer Darren Wilson is not indicted.

And he has said that the judge overseeing the grand jury, St. Louis County Circuit Judge Carolyn Whittington, already has agreed to order such release if requested.

But, with the grand jury’s decision expected this week, the county court’s top administrator on Sunday said no such agreement exists. He said Whittington has not agreed that she will release evidence in the grand jury review of the Aug. 9 shooting death of the unarmed teenager by the Ferguson police officer.

In a statement Sunday, Court Administrator Paul Fox said Whittington will have to “analyze the need for maintaining secrecy of the records with the need for public disclosure of the records.”

Fox also said the comments attributed to him in a Sunday Post-Dispatch article saying Whittington had agreed if there is not an indictment to grant such a request were “not accurate.”
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This is all pro forma. I doubt that the names of witnesses will be released but their statements will. It would be a crying shame not to be able to attribute a particular testimony to Mr. Johnson, though I guess the context will kind of sort that part out. The judge and the prosecutor -- and probably a room full of witness attorneys -- will sort out a basic narrative and some of the evidence to back it up at the time of the announcement. McCulloch can release results of the police investigation at that time, but the stronger argument would come from the grand jury proceedings.
 
I heard it predicted that things in the country is going to get very bad very quick regardless of the findings. Anyone have thoughts on that?
 
Mudcat said:
I heard it predicted that things in the country is going to get very bad very quick regardless of the findings. Anyone have thoughts on that?
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My godsons' school is across the street from a STL City police station. They've been preparing for weeks to get the kids out of there ASAP. If it does get decided tonight, they won't have school until next Monday, probably.

eta: Sorry, I misread "country" as "county", which I took to mean the Greater Saint Louis Area. I'd be surprised if there is much "things getting bad" outside the local region. I could be wrong.
 
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This is a few days old...

FBI arrests two would-be Ferguson bomb suspects

Two men suspected of buying explosives they planned to detonate during protests in Ferguson, Missouri, once a grand jury decides the Michael Brown case, were arrested on Friday and charged with federal firearms offenses, a law enforcement official told Reuters.

Word of the arrests, reported by a number of media outlets Friday, came ahead of the grand jury's widely anticipated decision on whether the white police officer who fatally shot Brown, an unarmed black teenager, should be indicted on criminal charges...

...As initially reported by CBS News, the men were suspected of acquiring explosives for pipe bombs that they planned to set off during protests in Ferguson, according to the official, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to publicly discuss the case.

The official said the two men are the same pair named in a newly unsealed federal indictment returned on Nov. 19 charging Brandon Orlando Baldwin and Olajuwon Davis with purchasing two pistols from a firearms dealer under false pretenses...
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