Michael Brown shooting II

[eeyore1954]

You may have missed the DOJ's report finding that it is not a falsely held belief. Here are some of the highlights.

The report and police activity did not prevent them from voting.

 

[Upchurch]

Nothing wrong with civil disobedience either although destruction of property and looting does not fall into that category.

I never said it did. There is far too much equivocation in this thread between protesters and looters. They are not the same thing.

 

[Upchurch]

The report and police activity did not prevent them from voting.

No, but something like this might.


eta: Actually, police activity might prevent people from voting, if trumped-up or false charges led to false criminal convictions.

 

[jimbob]

I would like to see a breakdown of population by age and race. If the percentage of young black men is higher than other groups of young men, you would expect to see higher numbers of young black men arrested as young men are the most likely to have scrapes with the law.

Here are the official figures for vehicle stops in Ferguson

http://ago.mo.gov/divisions/litigation/vehicle-stops-report?lea=161

As in the report, Blacks are more likely to be stopped, more likely to be searched, less likely to have any contraband found, yet are more likely to be arrested.

|Event|White|Black|
|Disparity Index|0.38|1.37|
|Search Rate|47 / 686|562 / 4632|
|Contraband Hit Rate|16 / 47|122 / 562|
|Arrest Rate|36 / 686|483 / 4632|

 

[johnny karate]

I find the insistence that the protesters (not the rioters or looters) do something more constructive with their time to be an odd one.

They protested.

They garnered national media coverage.

The DOJ investigated and issued a report confirming the complaints of the protesters.

A dialogue on race relations and police tactics has begun.

The issue is now being addressed at the local level, and police tactics across the country are being examined in various communities.

Seems to me the protesters (not the rioters or looters) spent their time productively, and are effecting actual change.

 

[Ammonitida]

I find the insistence that the protesters (not the rioters or looters) do something more constructive with their time to be an odd one.

They protested.

They garnered national media coverage.

The DOJ investigated and issued a report confirming the complaints of the protesters.

A dialogue on race relations and police tactics has begun.

Changes are now being made at the local level, and police tactics across the country are being examined in various communities.

Seems to me the protesters (not the rioters or looters) spent their time productively, and are effecting actual change.

I doubt you'd be saying that if you were Darren Wilson. He lost his career and had to go into hiding because these protestors were calling for his head. Plus, you ignore the fact that several of the most prominent protestors repeatedly lied about what they saw in an effort to frame an innocent man. I wouldn't call that productive.

They should have protested without subjecting an innocent man to a witch hunt.

 

[Upchurch]

Being systemically oppressed for generations, learning that the system is set up against them and that disobedience, civil or otherwise, is sometimes the only option.

Maybe they should also have tried the ballot box for their community.

In both this and another thread, I'm at a loss as to how to respond to this type of "Let them eat cake" socially/politically oblivious comment.

 

[johnny karate]

I doubt you'd be saying that if you were Darren Wilson. He lost his career and had to go into hiding because these protestors were calling for his head. Plus, you ignore the fact that several of the most prominent protestors repeatedly lied about what they saw in an effort to frame an innocent man. I wouldn't call that productive.

They should have protested without subjecting an innocent man to a witch hunt.

So some members of a group might have done something wrong, this then taints the group as whole? (Bonus points for not being the umpteenth poster to disingenuously lump protesters, looters, and rioters together.)

I'll have to try that same line of reasoning with cops and Republicans and see how it goes over.

I'm sure you for one would be fine with it.

 

[carlitos]

Justice Deparment is pretty much where I stand:Wilson acted in self defense but the Ferguson PD is a badly run organization with some real problems vis a vis racism.

I can agree with that. I will also reiterate my earlier contention that anyone who thinks the protests were just about Brown or Wilson were missing the point.

Me too.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

I find the insistence that the protesters (not the rioters or looters) do something more constructive with their time to be an odd one.

They protested.

They garnered national media coverage.

The DOJ investigated and issued a report confirming the complaints of the protesters.

A dialogue on race relations and police tactics has begun.

The issue is now being addressed at the local level, and police tactics across the country are being examined in various communities.

Seems to me the protesters (not the rioters or looters) spent their time productively, and are effecting actual change.

Will be interesting to see how the community as a whole, goes forward....

 

[Ammonitida]

So some members of a group might have done something wrong, this then taints the group as whole? (Bonus points for not being the umpteenth poster to disingenuously lump protesters, looters, and rioters together.)

I'll have to try that same line of reasoning with cops and Republicans and see how it goes over.

I'm sure you for one would be fine with it.

I didn't lump them together. I was specifically talking about a few protestors who weren't involved in the rioting or looting as far as I know. Dorian was a protestor, wasn't he? And what taints the whole movement is that it was focused on one man, who happened to be innocent all along. That's ugly no matter how you slice it.

 

[dudalb]

That really doesn't address my comments..

What prevents a systematically oppressed group of people, from getting organized, and becoming the dominant force in a community where they hold a solid majority?

Why can't the same energies being spent on protest, be spent on putting people in office who better represent them?

Probably because getting people elected to public office is a time consuming often boring process. (I know, I have been involved with local elections as a volunteer, and a lot of the necessary work is just plain boring:Envelope stuffing,etc).
Not nearly as exciting or as fun as a protest.

 

[dudalb]

I didn't lump them together. I was specifically talking about a few protestors who weren't involved in the rioting or looting as far as I know. Dorian was a protestor, wasn't he? And what taints the whole movement is that it was focused on one man, who happened to be innocent all along. That's ugly no matter how you slice it.

This. Making the whole issue of the situation of Ferguson all about Wilson was a huge mistake.
And I am getting tired of the way some here are ,although they are denying it, are basically defending the rioting and looting . That is what people are going to remember about what happened in Ferguson.
I am amazed that quite a few people on the left still do not get it:If you have five people who are looting or burning things down, and 95 people who are legally protesting,it's the five who will get all the attention. In Ferguson the people in charge of the protests apparently adapted a "no enemies to the left " policy, embraced the likes of the Socialist Workers party, and it blew up in their faces.

 

[Kestrel]

That really doesn't address my comments..

What prevents a systematically oppressed group of people, from getting organized, and becoming the dominant force in a community where they hold a solid majority?

Why can't the same energies being spent on protest, be spent on putting people in office who better represent them?

When the system ignores people's rights on a daily basis, those people tend not to trust the system. Hard to blame them when the cops in your town arrest people for "manner of walking down the street". And when the courts operate like an extortion racket. Anyone living is such a community would have a hard time believing that the ballots will be counted properly.

In fact, the ballots are probably being counted correctly. But if people don't believe they will be, it's hard to get them to vote.

 

[dudalb]

When the system ignores people's rights on a daily basis, those people tend not to trust the system. Hard to blame them when the cops in your town arrest people for "manner of walking down the street". And when the courts operate like an extortion racket. Anyone living is such a community would have a hard time believing that the ballots will be counted properly.

In fact, the ballots are probably being counted correctly. But if people don't believe they will be, it's hard to get them to vote.

So no path is open to them but to riot and burn down businesses?
SOunds like you are tyring to excuse the inexcusable.

The more I read about Ferguson's government, the more it sounds like something ran by Boss Hawg in The Dukes Of Hazzard,but I still don't think that cutting your town's economic throat by burning down business'sis going to help much.

 

[dudalb]

The Brown family announced it is going to be filing a Wrongful Death suite against Wilson "shortly". 100% expected.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Maybe they should also have tried the ballot box for their community.

New lows for victim blaming.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

So no path is open to them but to riot and burn down businesses?
SOunds like you are tyring to excuse the inexcusable.

The more I read about Ferguson's government, the more it sounds like something ran by Boss Hawg in The Dukes Of Hazzard,but I still don't think that cutting your town's economic throat by burning down business'sis going to help much.

I like how the post you responded to said nothing about any of that.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

And I am getting tired of the way some here are ,although they are denying it, are basically defending the rioting and looting . That is what people are going to remember about what happened in Ferguson.
I am amazed that quite a few people on the left still do not get it:If you have five people who are looting or burning things down, and 95 people who are legally protesting,it's the five who will get all the attention. In Ferguson the people in charge of the protests apparently adapted a "no enemies to the left " policy, embraced the likes of the Socialist Workers party, and it blew up in their faces.

Right, so even though they specifically aren't and are denying it, you think they are defending rioting and looting and they need to stop that. Good luck with that.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Probably because getting people elected to public office is a time consuming often boring process. (I know, I have been involved with local elections as a volunteer, and a lot of the necessary work is just plain boring:Envelope stuffing,etc).
Not nearly as exciting or as fun as a protest.

Wow, you are able to make these insulting claims without any knowledge or information on the political system or participation or candidates or anything, really. Do you think all black people are lazy? Or just all blacks in Ferguson?