Mexican Airforce films UFOs

AtheistArchon said:


- I'm really surprised that there's not more hubbub about this in the media...
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This was front page above the fold in the Daily News here in LA. The whole Iraq prison abuse was small print, and this was in big bold UFO SIGHTING? Mexico Airs Puzzling Videotape

http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20954~2145349,00.html

So there's your "mainstream media" hard at work getting to the bottom of something, and not sensationalizing it at all. *snort*


I say we get Randi on the Batphone hotline, and he puts the smackdown on this story.
 
Originally posted by Patricio Elicer

This case will surely catch the attention of "believers" and "skeptics" alike. I think we'll soon hear from P. Klass or R. Schaeffer or J. Oberg on this puzzle.
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I thought Philip Klass died.
 
AtheistArchon said:
- Mmm. Space debris sounds plausible, until you look at the similarity of the two main groups of three lights. They're more than just similar, they're dang-near identical; two parallel and close to each other, and one on the left farther away and down a notch.

- Unmodified Airforce pic:

lights1.jpg


- The two groups of three lights in closer comparison:

lights.jpg


- Also note that in the video, the lights appear to be moving parallel to the ground; the FLIR cam is mounted on the underside of the aircraft.

- No, I think we're looking at fixed objects... at least fixed in relation to each other.
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But their configurations don't remain constant throughout the entire duration of the video. At one point, you can only see two balls of light side by side spaced farther apart.
 
Well, since I brought the mystery up, I thought I'd try and solve it. :D

The numbers on the footage give the aircraft's exact location.

campecheMap2.gif


From the numbers for longtitude and latitude and how they change over time, I worked out that the aircraft is just a little below Escarcega and is flying eastward at 9 degrees to the left of due East.

Now, there are two other important numbers on the footage:

One number (actually just a pointer) is just left of zero and has a range -180 to 0 to +180. And it is pointing at around -140 or so.

The other number is azimuth which is around -140 degrees or so.

Which could mean the camera is pointing left and behind, pointing to the Northwest.

Ciudad del Carmen is to the Northwest...

At about the right distance...

And it has an airport... :D

As you can see from that little map above.

The airport is has a single runway and operates from 1 PM to 1 AM. I don't think it's very busy place.

http://www.azworldairports.com/airports/p2090cme.htm

Why would it have a lot of strong heat signatures which appear randomly, stay on for a matter of minutes and disappear?

Might be this...

Balloonstn.jpg


Maybe it was balloons taking off at Ciudad del Carmen airport?

Now I have no idea if balloons take off from there, though.

Well, that's my theory anyway. :D

But if that number and the pointer mean the camera is pointing Northwest, then it is pointing at a town big enough to have a small airport.

You could have all sorts of heat sources from a big town if something was going on there.
 
Batman Jr. said:
I thought Philip Klass died.
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Eh?,... that's probably not so. I just checked my latest issues of Skeptical Inquirer, where he is a fellow, and there's no indication of his passing. In fact he is still listed as a fellow. Well, unless he died just a few days ago. I hope that's not so :(
 
A major danish news bureau, TV2, have made a poll concerning this mexican UFO phenomena, this is the result so far:

True or false?

True: 36%

False: 39%

Don't know: 25%

Based on 5841 votes.

The reporter behind this story says that there were 11 objects viewable on IR, and three of them showed up on radar. He finish the story in a good manner (translated):

'For years Mexico have often been reporting about UFO sightings, but almost all of them have showed to have natural explanations like weather ballons and meteorology phenomena'(source).

I think that wipeout's ballon-theory is worth taking into account, the formations, and the changes here of, are of course rather akward in this perspective. It's all just rather silly speculations with the data we have at this point. Furthermore, the videoclip I have is clearly edited, I would like to see the original version.
 
As I say in my analysis above, the camera appears to be pointing at a fairly large town with an airport. It looks like the map says it has a port as well.

Balloons are just one idea for the heat sources. There's nothing from the footage I've seen so far to suggest the sources are even moving.

If there is industry, it could be some sort of flares from a chimneys or similar.
 
Is it possible these are flares dropped by other military aircraft on exercise in the area? Seems to me there was a case like that in the US a few years ago. If I recall correctly, the flares stayed airborne because they were suspended from parachutes that filled with hot air from the flares. Such flares put out a lot of IR because they are designed to spoof seeker heads on IR guided missiles.
 
wipeout said:
If there is industry, it could be some sort of flares from a chimneys or similar.
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But three of them were detected by radar, and estimated to be in the same altitude as the airplane. As for what I've heard from the media.
Originally posted by Zombified
Is it possible these are flares dropped by other military aircraft on exercise in the area?
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Just weird that the mexican airforce didn't knew about the other airplanes in the area then. But it's still a possibility, actually I also thought about flares because of the apparently systematic formations, when I first saw it. It would also make sense that there could have been 3 airplanes (3 radar detections), which then dropped 8 flares (11 IR detections).

I would really like to see the original version, the version I have seen, seems to be dramatized slighty - highlights from the episode.
 
Now I'm beginning to be convinced that this is three helicopters/airplanes, that drops eight flares.

(three objects caught on radar, and elleven objects caught on IR)

A flare with a normal camera:

flareparachute.jpg


Two flares with IR close-up view:

flares.jpg


Six flares with IR distant view:

lights1.jpg


The parachutes are filled with hot air from the flares, as Zombified proposed. It's not conclusive, but I think it's a good theory though. Also because if you look at the videos, you'll see that the objects caught on radar (indicated by a white square), have a diffrent shape than those I/we belive to be flares. I belive that a three flare formation becomes a two flare formation at a point, because one the flares simply run out.

Any objections or additions to this theory?
 
I like the flares idea but a problem is that the objects were invisible to the pilots and I'd expect flares to be visible at that range.

There is the possibility of someone testing some new kind of flare that doesn't give out light but still gives out infra-red to protect planes or helicopters from heat-seeking missiles while flying at night.

I think(?) normal flares light a plane or helicopter up and show where it is to everyone at night.

Like I say, the video suggests the infra-red objects were in or above a large town with an airport and a port, so you'd expect a lot of people to notice something going on, whether it was balloonists or helicopters flying around.

Zombified said:
Is it possible these are flares dropped by other military aircraft on exercise in the area? Seems to me there was a case like that in the US a few years ago. If I recall correctly, the flares stayed airborne because they were suspended from parachutes that filled with hot air from the flares. Such flares put out a lot of IR because they are designed to spoof seeker heads on IR guided missiles.
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Ah, those were the famous "Phoenix lights".

phx_lights9.gif


I remember video analysis showing that the flares descend veeeery slowly.
 
The pilots said that the objects turned back during a chase and surrounded the plane.

Apparently the screens showed they were behind them too the left and in front of them.

Flares can't move that fast, and neither can balloons.
 
wipeout said:
I like the flares idea but a problem is that the objects were invisible to the pilots and I'd expect flares to be visible at that range.

I think(?) normal flares light a plane or helicopter up and show where it is to everyone at night.
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I belive this was all taking place in daylight? I wouldn't think a flare to be very visible in daylight?
 
No footage I've seen has suggested any sort of movement from the objects at all. Relative to the clouds, they appear to be at least 10 miles away and stationary or slow-moving.

If much more dramatic footage existed of the objects moving around or closer then surely they'd show that instead?

Trust no-one. :D
 
Joe_Black said:
The pilots said that the objects turned back during a chase and surrounded the plane.

Apparently the screens showed they were behind them too the left and in front of them.

Flares can't move that fast, and neither can balloons.
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Did they say how many of the objects started to chase them? And do they have any videoclip or documentation of this chase/surrounding?
 
wipeout said:
No footage I've seen has suggested any sort of movement from the objects at all. Relative to the clouds, they appear to be at least 10 miles away and stationary or slow-moving.

If much more dramatic footage existed of the objects moving around or closer then surely they'd show that instead?

Trust no-one. :D
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Yea, maybe they started building on the story when they came home. Tomorrow we'll here how they suddently remembered that they were actually abducted and anal probed.
 
Thomas said:

I belive this was all taking place in daylight? I wouldn't think a flare to be very visible in daylight?
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Yeah, it's late-afternoon, just after 5 PM that the incident takes place. The camera is pointing northwest and slightly downwards and the clouds' shadows are on the right.

You could well be right about flares being difficult to see because of daylight, I don't know. :)

The intensity of the sources makes me wonder, though, that a flare that hot would not also be fairly bright as well.

Maybe the source was mostly in the camera's sweet-spot in terms of infra-red, and that makes it look far hotter than it really was.
 
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