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[Merged] Immortality & Bayesian Statistics

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Jabba said:
Something (in my case) wishes the feeling of continuity to continue. I assume that "thing" is my “self”?
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This is very sad. After being argued into a corner to a degree that I've seen few people ever succeed in you've finally pretty much been forced to admit that what you are saying is literally "I present false information to myself and others because I don't want to die."

You even said it yourself. Your evidence, its beginning and end, in its entirety is that you "wish" it to be true.

That's all you got man, a wish. This 180 page trainwreck of word games, rules lawyering, and childish forced obtuseness hasn't added anything else.
 
Jabba,

Happy birthday, although there is only 45 minutes left until it officially passes. Birthdays are scary things for some. They are that recurring reminder we are one year closer to death. For some (you) the prospect of dying is extremely unsettling.

Let it go.

Birthdays are also a celebration of everything you have experienced until now. Some good, some maybe less so, but a history to be celebrated nonetheless.

Your days are numbered, Jabba. My days are numbered. Everyone's days are numbered. Rather than ruminate on the inevitable, focus on what you've done, what you've experienced, what you still have time to experience anew.

Stop wasting your time trying to prove that which isn't true. There are other, more important things you could be doing.
 
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xtifr said:
Two separate things, Jabba! Two separate things!
- Consciousness (the self) is an emergent property of the brain, and
- The feeling of continuity is simply a side effect of the consciousness's ability to access memories stored in a brain.
Both depend totally on the presence of a brain, and cannot be separate from one. Therefore, the probability of either one existing is identical to the probability of the brain on which they depend existing.
Neither one even vaguely meets any reasonable definition of a soul, let alone an eternal one.
So, why do you bring it up?
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7606
Jabba said:
xtifr,
- Something (in my case) wishes the feeling of continuity to continue. I assume that "thing" is my “self”?
Click to expand...

7620
xtifr said:
Technically, the "thing" is the brain. Your legs run; your brain thinks (and wishes).
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xtifr,
- But, of the two -- 1) the self and, 2) the feeling of continuity -- which does the wishing?
 
Jabba said:
7594->7603
xtifr said:
Two separate things, Jabba! Two separate things!
- Consciousness (the self) is an emergent property of the brain, and
- The feeling of continuity is simply a side effect of the consciousness's ability to access memories stored in a brain.
Both depend totally on the presence of a brain, and cannot be separate from one. Therefore, the probability of either one existing is identical to the probability of the brain on which they depend existing.
Neither one even vaguely meets any reasonable definition of a soul, let alone an eternal one.
So, why do you bring it up?
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7606
Jabba said:
xtifr,
- Something (in my case) wishes the feeling of continuity to continue. I assume that "thing" is my “self”?
Click to expand...

7620
xtifr said:
Technically, the "thing" is the brain. Your legs run; your brain thinks (and wishes).
Click to expand...
xtifr,
- But, of the two -- 1) the self and, 2) the feeling of continuity -- which does the wishing?
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Read again the last post you quoted (the one about legs running); xtifr answered it right there. You are in essence asking "But of the two -- 1) the running and, 2) the sense of movement -- which propels me down the street?

The "feeling of continuity" is not a thing. The "self" is not a thing. "Running" is not a thing. None of them do anything; they are what is done.

Legs run. Brains wish.
 
Jabba said:
7594->7603

7606

7620
xtifr,
- But, of the two -- 1) the self and, 2) the feeling of continuity -- which does the wishing?
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Good Morning,Mr. Savage!

1-7264

The "self" is one term for the consciousness that is an emergent property of a particular neurosystem. It is the self that "has" memories, "has" emotions, "experiences" the sense of continuity.

As well ask: of the two, the "self" and the "palate", which does the liking of the strawberries?

Now. About that evidence that the "soul" exists and is "immortal"?

ETA: Ninja-ed by Garrette. Again!
 
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Slowvehicle said:
Good Morning,Mr. Savage!

1-7264

The "self" is one term for the consciousness that is an emergent property of a particular neurosystem. It is the self that "has" memories, "has" emotions, "experiences" the sense of continuity.

As well ask: of the two, the "self" and the "palate", which does the liking of the strawberries?

Now. About that evidence that the "soul" exists and is "immortal"?

ETA: Ninja-ed by Garrette. Again!
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Nah. If I'd truly ninja-ed anyone, there would be no evidence of my presence save corpses on the floor without hint of who had slain them.
 
Jabba said:
7594->7603

7606

7620
xtifr,
- But, of the two -- 1) the self and, 2) the feeling of continuity -- which does the wishing?
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Dear Jabba,

I think that others here have very nicely explained that "the self" is a "process" as the SM sees it and not a "thing." I think that the idea of legs, running, and sense of movement is a particularly clear analogy. Study it please.

More so, I fear that your belief in what will be reincarnated includes "your wishes" (given that you have stated before that your "self" will be reincarnated). I really don't see this in real life. One of my greatest wishes is for the safety of my family, whereas if I was reincarnated I suspect they would be strangers to me and I would only care for their safety as I would any one else. Less important, I currently wish for curries for dinner; do you think that my re-incarnated self would also like curries? You previously stated you might be a reincarnated Napoleon; do you find yourself wishing to invade England?
 
Jabba said:
7594->7603


xtifr,
- But, of the two -- 1) the self and, 2) the feeling of continuity -- which does the wishing?
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This must be a new high in low-down questions.

1) How can a feeling do any wishing?

2) It looks like yet another of your attempts to put words in other peoples' mouths by way of logical fallacies.

2.1.a) Research the fallacy of false dichotomies.
 
Jabba said:
7594->7603

7606

7620
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I thought you gave up on these silly numbers. Remember, every time you quote, there's a link to the original post, next to the name, so listing post numbers is pointless, and worse, likely to become incorrect if a mod moves or throws out posts from the thread (which has happened to this thread at least twice recently).

Please don't do it. It's distracting, confusing and potentially misleading.

(If you need to make temporary notes while writing, that's fine, but please delete them before saving.)

Jabba said:
xtifr,
- But, of the two -- 1) the self and, 2) the feeling of continuity -- which does the wishing?
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Garrette said:
The "feeling of continuity" is not a thing. The "self" is not a thing. "Running" is not a thing. None of them do anything; they are what is done.

Legs run. Brains wish.
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This. The brain and the legs are actors.* They do stuff. Actions aren't actors; they're what actors do. You asked what does the wishing. The only possible answer is: the brain.

(Since Jabba's not responding to most of the people in this thread, I figure I should try to acknowledge some of the ones who raise interesting or well-put points myself.)

* "Actor" in the original, non-theatrical sense, of course. Although it might be entertaining to see a pair of legs try to perform Romeo and Juliet. :D
 
Jabba said:
[ . . . ]
- But, of the two -- 1) the self and, 2) the feeling of continuity -- which does the wishing?
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The obvious answer to this question is that neither does the wishing.
As you know, Jabba, both 1) and 2) are emergent properties of a functioning neurosystem. This means it's the functioning neurosystem that 'does the wishing'.
 
xtifr said:
I thought you gave up on these silly numbers. Remember, every time you quote, there's a link to the original post, next to the name, so listing post numbers is pointless, and worse, likely to become incorrect if a mod moves or throws out posts from the thread (which has happened to this thread at least twice recently).

Please don't do it. It's distracting, confusing and potentially misleading.

(If you need to make temporary notes while writing, that's fine, but please delete them before saving.)
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- I keep a separate log of my posts and the posts that I'm responding to. I use this log to draw my quotes from. The numbering in this log is strictly for my own benefit, and I don't intend to leave them in the post -- they're accidental. I'll try harder to make sure they're removed.
 
Jabba said:
- I keep a separate log of my posts and the posts that I'm responding to. I use this log to draw my quotes from. The numbering in this log is strictly for my own benefit, and I don't intend to leave them in the post -- they're accidental. I'll try harder to make sure they're removed.
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Is this yet another lost promise? Will it be like your two year old promise to produce evidence?
 
Jabba said:
- I keep a separate log of my posts and the posts that I'm responding to. I use this log to draw my quotes from. The numbering in this log is strictly for my own benefit, and I don't intend to leave them in the post -- they're accidental. I'll try harder to make sure they're removed.
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Good Morning, Mr. Savage!

Any chance that we are any closer to you actually presenting evidence for the existence of the "soul", and existence for its "immortality:?
 
Jabba said:
- I keep a separate log of my posts and the posts that I'm responding to. I use this log to draw my quotes from. The numbering in this log is strictly for my own benefit, and I don't intend to leave them in the post -- they're accidental. I'll try harder to make sure they're removed.
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I have a better idea: How about essentially proving immortality?
 
Jabba said:
- I keep a separate log of my posts and the posts that I'm responding to. I use this log to draw my quotes from. The numbering in this log is strictly for my own benefit, and I don't intend to leave them in the post -- they're accidental. I'll try harder to make sure they're removed.
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What's wrong with using the little wheel in the centre of the mouse? I mean you won't have to scroll far.
 
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