Mercenaries Third Largest Force in Iraq

Shane Costello said:

The IRA does not recognise the democratically elected government of this state. The IRA murdered people in my name. The IRA murdered members of the police force responsible for my security. The IRA murdered democratically elected parliamentarians in this state. The IRA conspired with the Nazis during WWII. The IRA is behind who knows what amount of organised crime in this country. The Loyalists are scum, but they don't have the potential to effect me in the way the IRA do.

And what does it say about the average Irish person that they're happy to elect such people to poisitions in government just because they promise to resist the implementation of bin charges?

Bin charges! "Sure, they're psychpopathic, megalomaniac, drug-dealing, scum-sucking, ass-bandit murderers but they're against bin charges"

There isn't a rolleyes smilie in the world big enough to put after that statement.

Graham
 
Originally posted by Graham:
And what does it say about the average Irish person that they're happy to elect such people to poisitions in government just because they promise to resist the implementation of bin charges?

The average Irish person? We're getting to the stage where the average Irish person won't bother to elect anyone, if the slide in electoral turnouts continues! ;)

[Nitpick]The average Irish person doesn't vote for such people (yet).[/Nitpick] By that I mean only about 5% of people who vote do so for Sinn Fein.

Bin charges! "Sure, they're psychpopathic, megalomaniac, drug-dealing, scum-sucking, ass-bandit murderers but they're against bin charges"

For bin charges substitute "war". No try and find a rolleye smiley to go with that statement!
 
Shane Costello said:


For bin charges substitute "war". No try and find a rolleye smiley to go with that statement!

Yeah, Gerry Adams the peace activist, the sheer scale of the irony that statement involves is mind-boggling.

How they don't just burst into flames every time they open their mouths is a mystery to me.

Does anybody actually buy that? Seriously? Anybody? I mean, I'm a pretty cynical guy but I can't even imagine that level of short-sighted stupidity.

Here's a little story for your amusement (or mine really - it's my birthday tomorrow and I'm busy getting drunk to avoid thinking about it).

Around about fifteen years ago (or maybe more, I don't remember) my grandfather, a wrong-side-of-the-border Protestant with a British passport the eventually tore from his cold dead hands, decided that the only way he was ever going to get the narrow lane that went to his house and nowhere else (except the bog) resurfaced was to contact his local representative personally.

Unfortunately his local representative was a Sinner by the name of Eddie Fulton (a man with a . . . somewhat chequered past. He was big and fat with a huge, bushy black beard. He ended his days getting blown away with a shotgun in front of his wife with his trousers around his ankles and his kids watching from the bedroom door).

I was there when the illustrious councillor showed up at the house. I've never in my llife seen two men maintain such a perfect facade of false cordiality. I seriously think that had either of them put a word out of place there would have been blood shed on the spot.

Anyway, they had tea (my granfather was a Methodist at that point so no alcohol), a long chat and eventually my grandfather told old Eddie that there was no way in hell he'd ever vote for him. Eddie laughed and eventually left.

A week later (a week mind you) that three hundred yards of road was levelled as well as the nicest bit of motorway and my grandfather was smirking like the cheshire cat, his road repaired and his principles intact.

Of course, fifteen years later, I'm still telling people what Sinn Fein did for my grandad . . .

I don't know what that story shows really, except that politics is, well, a funny business and no-one but no-one knows how to play it like Sinn Fein.

Bastards.

Graham
 
I don't know what to say...in the NE USA I heard people sing the praises of the IRA. from what I've seen they look like a terrorist/ crimial org. with link to all sorts of bad people.

I don't know firsthand because I don't live there. I also have a hard time seeing why there is so much violence. the differences between north and south are surely minor compared to other countries in the world. English rule vs. Irish rule...both are democratic in nature. etc

It is a very tough issue and I feel for you all.


Virgil
 
Virgil said:
I don't know what to say...in the NE USA I heard people sing the praises of the IRA. from what I've seen they look like a terrorist/ crimial org. with link to all sorts of bad people.

I don't know firsthand because I don't live there. I also have a hard time seeing why there is so much violence. the differences between north and south are surely minor compared to other countries in the world. English rule vs. Irish rule...both are democratic in nature. etc

It is a very tough issue and I feel for you all.


Virgil

No offence, but your first statement is almost criminally naive.

To finance their activities the IRA fleeced and continue to fleece albeit to a lesser extent unsuspecting Americans who thought and think that they represesnt some sort of oppressed freedom fighter movement.

They don't, they represent themeselves and always have done. They represent murder, savagery and brutatlity and the absolute opposite of everything the USA and democracy is supposed to stand for.

It may interest you to know that to supplement their transatlantic shell game, the IRA engage in drug running, drug dealing on both an indivisual and wholesale level, protection rackets, assasination, armed robbery of banks and security transports, armed robbery of stately homes, kidnapping (of people and animals, interestinly enough), murder, murder, murder, oh and murder.

This may help you understand why the Irish (or some of us anyway) find the US spouting about Europe appeasing and supporting terrorism to be, well, slightly ironic, to say the least.

Your last paragraph is equally naive, btw. There is no conflict between Irish rule and British rule, nor has there been for nearly a hundred years now (slight exagggeration).

No one wants Northern Ireland - neither the British nor the Irish, for the most part. It's a s***hole full of of ignorant, psychotic bigots with massive unemployment and no viable industries of any kind. If it sank into the sea tomorrow no one would miss it.

The differences between north and south are nothing except to those who make a living from them, be that the IRA, the INLA, the UDA, the Peoples Liberations Front of Judea or the Judean Peoples Liberation Front.

To those people the differences are everything because those differences are what makes them rich and powerful (on their own limited scale of things anyway). Look at it htis way - you can be an unemployed, uneducated, useless peace of human faeces or you can be a heroic freedom fighter living off the proceeds of the drug trade and the "cost" of "protecting" "your people" - which do you choose?

The IRA are and have been since the formation of the free state, criminal scum. It should be one of the enduring shames of the US that they armed and funded them for so long.

Thanks to Bill Clinton, however, we forgive you. Smile, conservative terror fighters ;)

Graham
 
Originally posted by Graham:
Yeah, Gerry Adams the peace activist, the sheer scale of the irony that statement involves is mind-boggling.

How they don't just burst into flames every time they open their mouths is a mystery to me.

Does anybody actually buy that? Seriously? Anybody? I mean, I'm a pretty cynical guy but I can't even imagine that level of short-sighted stupidity.

I wonder myself. I often wonder if Gerry Adams oily smirk is due to his being barely able to contain himself at the implausabilty of it all.

Here's a little story for your amusement (or mine really - it's my birthday tomorrow and I'm busy getting drunk to avoid thinking about it).

You must be really drunk, such is the implausabilty of this tale. Now if it contained the line "...and then grandad gave the nice man a brown envelope with a load of paper or something in it" I might have believed it, it being 15 years back and all. ;) :D

I don't know what that story shows really, except that politics is, well, a funny business and no-one but no-one knows how to play it like Sinn Fein.

Well, I've read how Ian Paisley succesfully agitated for a convent in his constituency to get a grant of some sort, and how an offshore island that's completely Catholic gave him 100% of the vote in a European election. Maybe we shouldn't be suprised that Ian and Gerry's crew are now the two biggest parties up North.

Originally posted by Virgil:
I don't know what to say...in the NE USA I heard people sing the praises of the IRA. from what I've seen they look like a terrorist/ crimial org. with link to all sorts of bad people.

They most certainly are, and God knows there's a lot of truly stupid Irish-Americans out there. In fairness I'd wager the vast majority of people with Irish heritage in that part of the world are wise to the IRA. The late Sen. Patrick Moynihan for instance was far from misty eyed and sentimental when it came to them.

I don't know firsthand because I don't live there. I also have a hard time seeing why there is so much violence. the differences between north and south are surely minor compared to other countries in the world. English rule vs. Irish rule...both are democratic in nature. etc

Well there's a lot of history there that we needn't go into here. Suffice to say that both communities in the North of Ireland (or at least sections of them) hold each other in a mutual suspicion that'll take a while to dissipate.
 
Shane Costello said:


You must be really drunk, such is the implausabilty of this tale. Now if it contained the line "...and then grandad gave the nice man a brown envelope with a load of paper or something in it" I might have believed it, it being 15 years back and all. ;) :D



Heh, heh, considering we're about to become closely related by marriage one Mr Frank Dunlop, that might have been more appropriate, right enough.

Graham
 
Originally posted by Graham:
No offence, but your first statement is almost criminally naive.

To finance their activities the IRA fleeced and continue to fleece albeit to a lesser extent unsuspecting Americans who thought and think that they represesnt some sort of oppressed freedom fighter movement.

They don't, they represent themeselves and always have done. They represent murder, savagery and brutatlity and the absolute opposite of everything the USA and democracy is supposed to stand for.

Examples: One of Gerry's bestest friends in the whole wide world is Fidel Castro. The IRA also spent their American dollars buying semtex from Col. Gadaffi at a time when the colonel could expect the USAF to drop by unexpectedly. Sinn Fein/IRA reps have also developed a habit of turning up in marxist controlled sections of the Colombian jungle, but then they may only have been there on a nature walk.

The IRA are and have been since the formation of the free state, criminal scum. It should be one of the enduring shames of the US that they armed and funded them for so long.

[Nitpick]In fairness it was some of America's dimmer citizens, and not it's government (small difference?) that helped the IRA. Certainly they had some political friends, but these were fairly small fry and worlds away from the current administration[/Nitpick]

I agree pretty much with everything you said, but the tone suggests that you mightn't be looking forward to your birthday? :D
 
Shane Costello said:
Examples: One of Gerry's bestest friends in the whole wide world is Fidel Castro. The IRA also spent their American dollars buying semtex from Col. Gadaffi at a time when the colonel could expect the USAF to drop by unexpectedly. Sinn Fein/IRA reps have also developed a habit of turning up in marxist controlled sections of the Colombian jungle, but then they may only have been there on a nature walk.

Yeah, my theory is that they thought they were still in Dublin zoo. You know, with that whole "African Plains" thing going on, you step through that crazy tunnel thing you could almost be in the . . . jungle . . . in South America . . . ok, the theory could use a little work but it's as plausible as anything they've come up with.

Trying to follow their nasty little web of lies, evasions and conveniently assumed ideologies is painful to the head.

[Nitpick]In fairness it was some of America's dimmer citizens, and not it's government (small difference?) that helped the IRA. Certainly they had some political friends, but these were fairly small fry and worlds away from the current administration[/Nitpick]

Probably, I'm not in the mood for reason and sensible discernment :)

I suppose we'll never really know how much actual money and support there really, actually was from the US, since it's in the interests of all involved to both exaggerate it and at the same time cover it up.


I agree pretty much with everything you said, but the tone suggests that you mightn't be looking forward to your birthday? :D

Frankly, I blame the IRA for my rapidly receding youth.

It makes sense to me.

Graham
 
Hello Virgil.
If you are interested in Northern Ireland history and politics and want to get away from the typical media/establishment confection of half truths and lies may I recommend the following.

War and Words: The Northern Ireland Media Reader
by Bill Rolston, David Miller

The Point of No Return: The Strike which Broke the British in Ulster (1975)
by Robert Fisk

In Time of War: Ireland, Ulster, and the Price of Neutrality (1982)
by Robert Fisk

The Troubles: Irelands Ordeal 1966-1996 and the Search for Peace
by Tim Pat Coogan

The Committee
by Sean McPhilemy - this controversial (once banned) book explores links between the Unionist establishment, the RUC and loyalist death squads.

All the best,
demon
 
Originally posted by demon:
If you are interested in Northern Ireland history and politics and want to get away from the typical media/establishment confection of half truths and lies may I recommend the following.

Begging your pardon, but what's this media establishment you speak of, and what's this confection of half truths and lies they spin? Does it come in low-fat form, for the health conscious Unionist fellow travellers among us? Perhaps the media establishment is currently working on something along the lines of "I can't believe it's not a confection of half truths and lies designed to wreck the peace process!"


The Troubles: Irelands Ordeal 1966-1996 and the Search for Peace
by Tim Pat Coogan

Tim Pat Coogan turns up in today's Sunday Independent newspaper, describing how recent comment's by the Minister for Justice on the relationship between Sinn Fein and organised crime are "damaging the Peace Process". You can register free and read the article in full. In Tim Pat Coogans world you can murder, maim, lie, smuggle weaponry and canoodle with narco-marxists, but if someone draws attention to this then they're the ones wrecking the peace process, not you. :rolleyes:

So come on demon, nail your colours to the mast. Do you think the IRA are an army of liberation and that this state, that has enjoyed the democratic endorsement of it's citizens for eight decades and is internationally recognised, is a charade and that the IRA army council is in fact our legitimate government?
 
Virgil said:
I will see if I can order then through my libary.

thanks
Virgil

Caveat Emptor!

(or prehaps..."Let the borrower beware!")

Virgil,...you need to balance any books "Demon" may recommend with other, more unbiased sources. I would expect, (knowing the Demon as I do), that he has just given you a list of polemics.

-z
 
subgenius said:
How about a new thread on IRA/Ireland?

A good idea but, at the same time, it is interesting to see some people once again leaping to the defense of the indefinsible.

I find that it helps me to guage the worth of people's analysis of one subject, when I have their analysis of a subject I'm more familiar with to measure them against.

Graham
 
Rik:
"I would expect, (knowing the Demon as I do), that he has just given you a list of polemics."

Not at all and if you think so why not offer your own recommendations?
Knowing you the way I do, if you thought you knew anything about Ireland we would have had it rammed down our throats by now. As this hasn`t happened I suspect you know as much about Irish politics as I do about Venezuelen ice dancing.
 
Cleopatra said:

He was entering his final semester of college in January 2003 when his unit was ordered activated. His unit, C Company, 1-124 INF of the 53d Infantry Brigade was sent to Ft. Stewart, GA for pre-mobilization combat training. While at Ft. Stewart Mejia, who was a squad leader, noted that every reservist "passed" every test, even when their performance was deficient.

Sounds to me like Mr. Mejia stepped on his own unit. :p
 

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