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Mediums - advice please?

Becky78

Student
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
34
Hi There

I am new to the forum. Up until a couple of months ago I was a full on total believer in mediums, etc until I had some personal problems and decided to go and see one. so I paid my £30 and was told a lot of utter clap trap, somethings could have been true and she did describe my little boy to a tee, but my Grandad was apparently there along with several other relatives who I had never heard of (neither had my parents!!). Since then I have done a lot of research into this and found this forum. Now I am totally in the middle of the debate and don't know what to believe so would welcome some views from everyone!

Thanks
Becky
 
Hi There

I am new to the forum. Up until a couple of months ago I was a full on total believer in mediums, etc until I had some personal problems and decided to go and see one. so I paid my £30 and was told a lot of utter clap trap, somethings could have been true and she did describe my little boy to a tee, but my Grandad was apparently there along with several other relatives who I had never heard of (neither had my parents!!). Since then I have done a lot of research into this and found this forum. Now I am totally in the middle of the debate and don't know what to believe so would welcome some views from everyone!

Thanks
Becky

Hi, Becky, and welcome to the Forum!

I think you might be interested in StopSylviaBrowne, a website put together by one of our very own Forumites, RSLancaster. The site is about a famous medium in the US by the name of Sylvia Browne. Many of her "tricks" are common in the trade, such as cold (and hot) reading. I imagine you'll probably find some strikingly similiar instances of stuff you experienced in that site.

Also, the two links above (for hot & cold reading) are from Skepticwiki, which is another really good resource.

If you have a chance to check out the local bookstore, I'd recommend the following book to start with: the ever-so-excellent "the Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" (by Carl Sagan). Another good starter book is "Flim Flam!" (by James Randi).

And, of course, if you have any specific questions, let 'em rip. I think we'd also be very interested to hear the particulars of your experience (and what keyed you into the idea that they might be bunk), too!

Cheers --

-- JG
 
Welcome to the forum Becky,

Jackalgirl has provided excellent links, the one on cold reading perhaps the best start.

A tip that may help you: Forget for a moment that the person is claiming to be a medium and talking to dead people and imagine that they are an ordinary Private Investigator hired by someone.

Think for yourself who and what the Private Investigator could investigate to gather information; you, family, friends, Internet, newspapers, obituaries etc. In particular friends and family that you know or suspect that they have already met. What information could that Private Investigator gather, possibly completely unknown or not remembered by the people he spoke to. Once you have built a picture of what the Private Investigator may have found out, you then get an idea of exactly the type of information a 'medium' could gather for a hot reading.

Ask us questions. What seems inexplicable to you may not be to us.

Finally, of all the hoaxes, cons, tricks, liars and cheats out there, many on this forum consider mediums and their ilk among the lowest of the low and find it difficult to control their annoyance so comments may get heated.

However, R S Lancaster, mentioned by Jackalgirl has demonstrated patience and professionalism above and beyond the call of duty and is highly respected on these forums.

.
 
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Since you're British, your local library might have, or should be able to locate The Full Fact Book of Cold Reading. This is the Bible about how to do and spot cold reading, which is what your psychic was actually doing. I have a copy and have just finished reading it. Read it, and you'll never be fooled again.

BTW, Jeff Wagg was considering adding this to the JREF book store offerings.
 
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Hi Becky! All mediums and psychics have a standard way of operating. For instance, the spirits they contact never identify themselves properly and require you to make a guess at who they are. E.g. the medium always says something like "I'm getting the name John or Johnny, somebody with a military connection?" instead of "I've got somebody here who says his name is John Alfred Stewart, and he's your dad's uncle, the one who died in the war." Would a real relative, calling you up on the phone say, expect you to play this sort of guessing game?
Mediums always ask questions, lots of them. Why? If they're so psychic, they shouldn't need to ask anything.
If you refuse to let a medium "cold read" you - by, for instance, answering questions only with a yes or a no and keeping an expressionless face - the medium will probably say that "The vibrations are weak today" or something similar, as an excuse for their poor reading.
Occasionally, a medium will strike it lucky with something that seems to apply to you. When that happens, the person being read is likely to remember that one "hit" and forget the twenty minutes of so of chat and verbiage that meant little or nothing. Don't be one of those - evaluate and remember everything that the medium tells you. Ideally, take a tape recorder to the reading; however, the medium is likely to tell you that the recording equipment gives off "electronic vibrations" that will kill the "psychic atmosphere" of the room.
Finally, most mediums and psychics are totally sincere and really do believe that they are in touch with dead people and "higher beings". That doesn't mean that they're right.
 
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Becky, a lot to take in, Sophia8 offers good info, but it may not be clear exactly how this works.

Maybe this will help, putting it in context. Taken from THIS site:

“Good evening, Betty.”

“Good evening, Maureen.”

“Do you hear anything from my Mum?”
[Though Maureen has spoken but ten words, Betty — or any listener — can already surmise that she is upwards of 55 years old, might have been raised in Ireland, and is a generally jovial person or at least tonight is in a happy mood. As distinct from other categories of caller, she does not sound recently bereaved, or as though she is seeking advice on a personal problem.]

“Yes, I can, [Betty gushes.] because I have the most smiling lady here beside me! You know, Maureen, she used to put her hands together in glee, didn’t she?”

“Yes.” [A note of hesitation.]

“And she almost jumped up and down!”

“That’s right” [With more confidence.]

“That’s what she's doing at the moment! [Betty’s voice reaches a peak of excitement, and then becomes more serious.] Now, just as I was saying that, she was giving me a feeling — in the abdomen, not in the stomache — and it’s all tight. It feels emaciated but blown up. And she's having trouble breathing — it must have been that way at the end”

“That’s right.” [Betty’s spirits usually identify themselves by recounting their deathbed symptoms: vague complaints in the thorax region, difficulties in breathing, weakness, and occasionally head pains. Auto accident victims tell of “chest pains.”]

“Yes, yes, I was overseas when she died at home.” [It is now clearer that Maureen is Irish and closer perhaps to 65 or 70 years old.]

“Gosh, there is a crowd of people around her!”

“Is there? [Maureen is astonished.] Is Mum’s sister with her?”

“Yes, exactly.” [Betty replies with casual confidence.]

“And my father?” [Maureen almost shouts with excitement.]

“Yes, he’s there too.”

“And is my brother there?” [The eager client supplies the reader with all the material required.]

“Yes, your brother is there too. And look [Betty’s voice is almost embarrassed.], I know this sounds funny, but there are five grandparents here! [Betty often suggests a family friend, aunt, or uncle who was important in childhood.]

“Oh...[Maureen hesitates.] Oh! That could be my Mum’s English friend!

“And going back to that time, can we talk about a donkey cart?”

“Oh, yes!” [A donkey cart would be a memorable feature for almost any person of Maureen's age and Irish childhood. Such a reference exemplifies Betty’s broad knowledge of ethnic associations and general population stereotypes; but note the caution — not “your family’s” cart, but just “a donkey cart.” It is left to Maureen to remember which particular cart Betty must “mean.”]

“And the times that were associated with it — you can really feel the pleasure of that time.”

“That's right.” [Maureen is emphatic.]

“Now look — I”m being shown a row of houses, and they’re apartment houses.”

“Yes...” [Maureen hesitates.]

“And there are about four of them...”

[Silence from Maureen, indicating puzzlement.]

“Now bear with me here — and I’ve got a sort of red brick.”

[Longer silence — it must come as a surprise that an elderly Irish lady cannot relate some memory to a description of common brick row houses, but even the best utilized population stereotypes will occasionally fail.]

“Now, Maureen, this isn’t where you lived!” [Betty speaks firmly.]

“No...no, it’s not.” [Of course it isn”t; but an awkward miss is being cleverly converted to a hit.]

“But it’s where...ah...[Betty is groping.]...ah...a dear friend lived! Can you understand that?”

“Yes.” [Maureen speaks without conviction: she is trying to figure who the friend might be. Betty quickly changes the subject.]

“Also, I’m being handed a little posy of flowers. They’re almost like forget-me-nots, but I’m not sure that they are — and she’s handing those to you.”

“My mother is?”

“Yes, it is your mother.”

“Oh, how nice!”

“And you know, Maureen, there’s an anniversary coming up soon — a time of memory. It was somebody’s birthday.” [With Maureen’s many relatives, somebody, living or dead, must have a birthday soon.]

“Oh, yes...”

“And that one sends their love to you too.” [The ungrammatical “their” doubles the possibilities of either “his” or “her,” but this hardly seems necessary, as by now it clear that Maureen will accept anything that Betty says, making, as Larsen so aptly put it, the reading fit herself.]

“And my brother [Maureen’s voice takes on a melancholy tone.], is he happy?”

“He’s happy now, he’s telling me, and he’s stressing the word now. He says, “She’ll know — you don”t have to ask me more — she’ll know.”

“Oh, I know...I know.” [Maureen sighs.]

“I’m having trouble keeping up with all of them here — they’re all crowding in — and they’re all happy.”

“Here’s one — a prickly one. Is my mother-in-law about?”

“Yes, she is.”

“Is she happy?”

“Yes, she is. She was a little bit of a discontented lady, she tells me. [To the contrary, it was Maureen who told her that with the “prickly” characterization.]

“Yes! [Amazed.] That’s right!”

“But she says, “Well, you’ve got to learn contentment, and there’s no reason we can’t have contentment here, because we have everything we need.”

“Isn”t that marvelous!” ....
 
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You may be interested in the reasons why skeptics are so sure that all mediums are deluded, frauds, or both. One reason is that there are good reasons to believe that there's no such thing as a soul or an afterlife. I don't have time to explain that fully right now, so I'll move on to the best reason to believe that mediums are deluded or frauds: No one has ever proved that there's a person who can communicate with the dead.

So what would a skeptic consider proof? We know that there's no such thing as an "absolute" proof, so we are not going to demand that. What we need to see is a passing score in a test designed so that a) the medium can't cheat, and b) the probabilities of guessing the correct answers are known.

The exact details depend on what the medium says he or she can do. For example, suppose that a man claims to have the ability to communicate with the dead relatives of a person he's touching physically, and that he only fails 10% of the time. In that case I would suggest the following test design:

Flip a coin 30 times and write down the results, in the correct order. Count the number of heads and tails. Suppose you get 17 heads and 13 tails. Then you find 17 people whose fathers are dead, and 13 people whose fathers are alive. Let the medium meet these people, one at a time, and make sure that they go to meet the medium in the order determined by the coin flips. At each meeting the medium is allowed to hold the person's hand, but no further communication between them is allowed. When the person has left the room, the medium makes a note of if he thinks the person's father is alive or dead. He is not allowed to tell anyone (including you) what he thinks the answer is. This is very important. We don't want to give him a chance to read the reaction of someone who knows the correct answer. When the medium has met everyone, he shows you his notes with the answers. You count the number of correct answers, and if he has 24 correct answers or more, he has passed the test.

Why 24 correct answers, and why 30 people? Actually I just picked some numbers that seemed appropriate. We don't want to demand 90% accuracy on the test, because then there's a good chance that he fails because of bad luck, even if he has the accuracy he says he has. So I chose to draw the line at 80%, to give him a better chance of success. If I were to do this test for real, I would do some math to check if the numbers are appropriate. I would calculate the probability that a person who's just guessing would pass the test, and the probability that a person with 90% accuracy will pass the test. I would prefer the first probability to be at most 1/1000000 and the second at least 0.95.

Tests like these are easy to perform. They don't require sophisticated testing equipment and can be carried out by almost anyone. That's a very good reason to believe that if mediums could do what they say they can do, it would have been proven a long time ago.

Believers often bring up a quote (by Carl Sagan I think): "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". They mean that just because it hasn't been proven that mediums exist doesn't mean that they don't. They would have a point if it wasn't so ridiculously easy to test mediums. When it's easy to prove existence, the absence of evidence really is evidence of absence.
 
Thanks for all this, it has enlightened me somewhat! I will certainly do some research and read up on the things you have mentioned.

As regards my personal experience I tried not to give anything away, but when she first started she had me hooked and I did get a bit tearful. She said she could tell I was a very nice person and that I had problems and was one of those people that did a lot for others, etc. She then stated she had my grandad there and a gentleman called Jack (nobody in either family knows a Jack)!.

She went on to have some hits though and talked about my little boy to a tee, but she did have to ask how many kids I had and how old they were and I have since thought she described a normal 3 year old to a tee!!

Other spirits that came through were Elsie who again nobody had heard of and she said there was man who had been killed in an accident, when I made no response she said it could be someone who knew my husband (guess what - nope!)

She then dropped in that my grandma was there (which is why I had gone as I had been having odd experiences and feeling so low had convinced myself she was around). She did describe how she died to a tee, but then both my grandma's died that way - from breathing dificulties. So she said this was my dads mum and right at the end asked if there was anything else I wanted and I said I was upset my mum's mum hadn't come through and she totally changed tack and said that it was my mums mum after all and that my mum had an old handbag of hers and an old tea pot - neither of which are true!!

She has been on Most Haunted and was quick to tell me that and about 5 people had recommended her to me so I thought she was the real deal - but are any of these people?

Sorry if that's a bit long winded and thanks for your comments - it certainly explains a lot
 
Hi Becky

Welcome to the forum. I guess a lot of us went through a period where they were challenging their own beliefs and in a lot of cases abandoning them. It can be a little unsettling but thinking for yourself is ultimately a good thing.

If you have some time I would be really interested in your thoughts right now. You say that you are in the middle of the debate and don't know what to believe.
What is it that you are debating about (or who?) What is it that you are uncertain about? What are the things that do or don't make sense to you?

I am not asking these questions to challenge you, I am honestly interested in what your thoughts are, also that might make it easier to help you figure out what information you might be looking for


Kariboo
 
Hi Becky, seems like my last post was just a couple of minutes too late. I guess I'm a slow typist

Here are some things I noticed about your description

I tried not to give anything away, but when she first started she had me hooked and I did get a bit tearful.

Well, so you gave something away, often mediums are very good at reading even subtle non verbal behavior, so even if you try it's easy to give something away by the way you look, shift, blush, fidget....you name it

She said she could tell I was a very nice person and that I had problems and was one of those people that did a lot for others, etc.

Generalized and applicable to about everyone going to a medium. Also it is something a lot of people like hearing about themselves. It would be a lot more surprizing if she told you you were a bad person without any problems who doesn't care about others:)

She then stated she had my grandad there and a gentleman called Jack (nobody in either family knows a Jack)!.
Granddad is an easy guess, Jack obviously was a mistake, Jack is probably a usual name so she just tries

She went on to have some hits though and talked about my little boy to a tee, but she did have to ask how many kids I had and how old they were and I have since thought she described a normal 3 year old to a tee!!

Exactly!

Other spirits that came through were Elsie who again nobody had heard of and she said there was man who had been killed in an accident, when I made no response she said it could be someone who knew my husband (guess what - nope!)

Well, we all know a lot of people (living and dead, present, past , personal, work, acquintaces, butcher etc.) It is actually unusually for anyone not to know anyone who died in an accident


She then dropped in that my grandma was there (which is why I had gone as I had been having odd experiences and feeling so low had convinced myself she was around).

Did you tell the medium that?

She did describe how she died to a tee, but then both my grandma's died that way - from breathing dificulties.

Most people die from breathing difficultes (or have breathing difficulties when they die.

So she said this was my dads mum

50% chance

and right at the end asked if there was anything else I wanted and I said I was upset my mum's mum hadn't come through and she totally changed tack

ah, the other 50%

and said that it was my mums mum after all and that my mum had an old handbag of hers and an old tea pot - neither of which are true!!

Most people keep mementos, it would have probably been easy to say your mum had some jewelry from her as that is the most kept memento

She has been on Most Haunted and was quick to tell me that and about 5 people had recommended her to me so I thought she was the real deal - but are any of these people?

Not that we know of no


Hope this helps

And hope I'm not posting again just after someone else said the same
 
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Hi Becky,

I myself came from a family of "mediums" and acted as one myself. I didn't do this to defraud anyone...I never charged money. I didn't even know that the techniques I used were cold reading. I simply learned them by observation throughout my life.

It took video recordings of my readings and a few "set ups" I arranged when I became skeptical to show me that indeed, this was what I was doing. I was good at following and digging at "hits", and I quickly dismissed my misses and returned to things that got a reaction.

I thought I was helping people. In truth I was a sensitive, observant person dealing with people eager to believe and open to sharing a lot of information that helped the reading along.

Once I had become aware of what was really going on, I went to several mediums, psychics and card readers and paid them for readings. Their mode of operation was the same, and when I lied to help them along with hits, they followed the same paths. Were all greedy charletans out to steal? No, some were sincere, but I'm also quite sure some knew they were full of it.

I have never come across a psychic or medium that did not use cold or hot reading. Never.

Some good reading on the site might be the Million Dollar Challenge applications. You'll see a lot of claims made, yet no one has won that million. Certainly that money could be put to good use through charity or a psychic being able to work for free to help people. Yet, no one has won. Once you eliminate cold reading from the criteria, there is nothing left but random guessing.
 
Becky, you have almost quoted verbatim parts of that book I linked to, above. Either Ian Rowland, the author, is himself psychic and predicted your session, or your medium was rather mediocre and operating from a standard catalog of routines.

Well, a third explanation could be that Becky is a plant from a psychic forum or newspaper or something similar :D

Sorry Becky. Just exploring all the options. I'm sure you're totally above board :o
 
I'm not a plant honest!:D I am really genuinely interested in all this stuff. I have believed in mediums and ghosts and stuff forever and this has just turned my entire beliefs upside down. I have been reading your forum for a few weeks and find it fascinating. My husband is the biggest skeptic out there, but I have always believed these people are genuine.

I also used to watch all the tv shows, especially Colin Fry and just can't believe that these people are all frauds. Some of the things they come out with are amazing, but these techniques explain a lot. It's amazing that people use these so called mediums for major things in their lives.

Miss Anthrope your comments were helpful and I am sure like you most of these people genuinely believe they have a gift.
 
I'm not a plant honest!:D I am really genuinely interested in all this stuff. I have believed in mediums and ghosts and stuff forever and this has just turned my entire beliefs upside down. I have been reading your forum for a few weeks and find it fascinating. My husband is the biggest skeptic out there, but I have always believed these people are genuine.

I also used to watch all the tv shows, especially Colin Fry and just can't believe that these people are all frauds. Some of the things they come out with are amazing, but these techniques explain a lot. It's amazing that people use these so called mediums for major things in their lives.

Miss Anthrope your comments were helpful and I am sure like you most of these people genuinely believe they have a gift.

Most of these people do believe in what they are doing, but the really good ones are frauds and cheats. If the medium says he couldn't possibly have guessed, he's a cheat.

Alas, this happens all the time on television, and the television people often go along with it, even going so far as to edit the sequences to cut out the bit where the subject first tells the medium "His name was Ed" and to put in a shot of the subject looking shocked about a completely different topic!

A lot of people see all this stuff on television and think "there's so much of it and it all looks so good. It can't all be faked!"

Except that it is. It's funny the way this works. You can convince someone that 99 out of a 100 spots are the work of unethical TV show producers, but that convinces people that the 100th spot is more likely to be true.
 
I say name and shame the medium and maybe us on here can point you to specific info about her.
Been on Most Haunted you say? Hmm...can't be many.

ETA: You don't mean Haunted Homes do you?
 
I'm not a plant honest!:D I am really genuinely interested in all this stuff. I have believed in mediums and ghosts and stuff forever and this has just turned my entire beliefs upside down. I have been reading your forum for a few weeks and find it fascinating. [bold] My husband[/bold] is the biggest skeptic out there, but I have always believed these people are genuine.

OK, you're married so you get the direct approach. Did you speak of anythig in the waiting room (it might be bugged). Did you write anything on a clipboard? (Clipboards are tools for the psychic). Did you write anything about what you wished to hear on any piece of paper after you entered the psychic's abode? These people are shameless and might have taken possession of your paper for dishonest purposes.

Perhaps your husband can't defend you as much as you thought :rolleyes:
 
I'm not sure I feel comfortable naming her! She isn't anyone I'd ever heard of, but does have her own webpage and business card so I guss she is running a proper business and making money out of this stuff.

I am sure she said Most Haunted, but it isn't a programme I watch. I just checked out her webpage and she also does "parties" which should be made me question her in the first place LOL:) It mentions Livings Most Haunted programme so it is that.

It also says she is about to tour the UK with her "successful Evenings of Clairvoyance"
 
Senex I went straight into her house so I didn't tell her anything or write anything down at all. I had been chatting to her on the phone as I got lost on the way to her house, but I didn't say anything personal to her. I did mention I had a baby when I made the booking and she did use this.
 

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