Medium to the Stars?

[the Sphinx]

Actually smart people can be the easiest to fool because they think they can't be fooled.

You can't really seriously think that.

 

[abaddon]

In fairness, that's not the way it works.

Apologies for butting in, but do we have before us someone who believes in the power of Tyler Henry? Just exactly how gullible would one have to be to buy that bucket of crap?

 

[Resume]

You can't really seriously think that.

You really don't know where you are, do you?

Here's a start.

The Great Banachek Holds the Key to Your Mind
The Great Banachek, also known as Steve Shaw is a magician, a mentalist, and a world class expert in creating the illusion of a sixth sense. He will demonstrate his powers with a performance of his highly acclaimed magic show, and then recount his experiences participating in the famous Alpha Project.

The Famous Alpha Project — The Greatest Sting Operation
in the History of the Skeptics
In the 1970s the field of parapsychology blossomed when so-called psychics miraculously bent spoons, levitated objects, and demonstrated all manner of paranormal phenomena. Scientists and psychologists, because they could not find any normal explanations for these seemingly paranormal happenings, began to refer to psi power. Journal articles were published, books were written, and careers were developed based on these mysterious happenings. Then along came James “The Amazing” Randi and Steve Shaw. Randi trained the young, unknown Shaw in the ways of magical prestidigitation, wizardry, deception, and chicanery. Shaw then found his way into a parapsychology laboratory, and thus began The Alpha Project. Shaw became the parapsychologists’ star psychic for almost two years, until Randi held a press conference and announced the results of his experiment: a young magician could easily dupe professional scientists and convince them of the reality of psychic power.

 

[the Sphinx]

Ahhh...burden of proof. So one of the hundreds of people posting on this forum who has stated that Henry uses hot and cold reads is going to offer evidence? Take on that BofP to back up the claims? I'm waiting for that.

I'd say a guy who demonstrates his claims to a rotating 80 member TV crew and over 100 accomplished people getting read, he has taken the first steps toward BofP.

Hot and cold reading---the ball is in your court.

 

[Resume]

Apologies for butting in, but do we have before us someone who believes in the power of Tyler Henry? Just exactly how gullible would one have to be to buy that bucket of crap?

I understand the power of Benjamin Tyler Henry.

The other, not so much.

 

[Resume]

I'd say a guy who demonstrates his claims to a rotating 80 member TV crew and over 100 accomplished people getting read, he has taken the first steps toward BofP.

And you'd be wrong; see post 328 to begin to understand why.

 

[the Sphinx]

>when so-called psychics miraculously bent spoons, levitated objects, and demonstrated all manner of paranormal phenomena. Scientists and psychologists, because they could not find any normal explanations for these seemingly paranormal happenings, began to refer to psi power.

You greatly exaggerate what was going on at that time in the 1970's. There was no "sci" power.

Basically, all the sci you are talking about amounts to Uri Geller (sic). He came to my school (Villanova), bent a friend's dorm room key. Nobody standing there fell for that for a NY minute. It was ridiculous. And your claim the scientific community wrote books and was fooled back then is just ridiculous. The people fooled were housewives staying up late watching Jonny Carson.

AND just because some magicians were exposed as mis-representing magic (name one besides Uri who made this false claim) this has nothing to say about whether Mr. Henry has some ability other people do not have.

95% of major league pitchers can't throw a baseball faster than 95 mph. Does that mean none can? Of course not. There are six I believe who throw over 100 mph.

Think about that. Seven billion people on earth and six can throw over 100.

That you can't do what Henry does, does not mean he isn't one of six.

 

[Resume]

That you can't do what Henry does, does not mean he isn't one of six.

Over the millenia, lots of people did what Henry does; beguiling the credulous for profit is one of the world's oldest business models.

You really don't know where you are.

Also, please learn how to use the quote function.

 

[the Sphinx]

You screwed up the quote function, forgive my joke.

The "psychic" is the one making the claim. They should support it with evidence. Why has no psychic ever done this?

I had to figure out the quote function. Perhaps I'm a bit slow.

The answer to your question is Wegener and Alvarez and Loeb at Harvard talking UFOS. You could not pay me to go through that level of ridicule. Or the few scientists who were ignored and ridiculed because they dared suggest people populated the Americas at least 10,000 years pre-Clovis.

That and people with special ability don't care what you think (in some cases because they are making too much money).

Let's turn the question around. When are you going to produce scientific proof that Henry is using hot or cold reading? It would be easy enough to do. You don't even need his cooperation.

 

[abaddon]

I understand the power of Benjamin Tyler Henry.

The other, not so much.

I have perfomed more accurate readings than that twonk while drunk, because these days I do not do that anymore, so one has to get me well oiled to even bother anymore.

Why did I quit doing it? Because gullible twits thought it was real, even though I would state at the outset that I was making this crap up. And I was doing it live and in person. I didn't have the benefit of post production editing.

I still dabble a bit, but only for people I know and am sure could not give a crap anyway. I have no desire to spout meaningless gibberish that makes people actually alter their lives for no good reason, nor have random christians knock on my door seeking to exorcise the demon living in my heart (yes, that happened)

 

[the Sphinx]

Over the millenia, lots of people did what Henry does; beguiling the credulous for profit is one of the world's oldest business models.

Considering how much money a guy like Henry can make, a guy with otherwise no apparent skill set, lots of people would be doing what Henry does. But in fact most people can't. They can't read the dead and the can't learn to fake it well enough to fool an 80 man crew, executives at the Discovery Channel and all the people he reads.

Faking it week after week would be a Herculean task. Especially with a TV monitor in the other room while the subject is being read and family are commenting live. Week after week. You'd eventually get found out.

Take the seances at the turn of last century. You know about this because the phenomena of doing it or faking doing it is so rare.

"Beguiling the credulous" or is he doing something you can't understand so you refuse to look at it.

 

[abaddon]

I had to figure out the quote function. Perhaps I'm a bit slow.

I would not have guessed.

The answer to your question is Wegener and Alvarez and Loeb at Harvard talking UFOS. You could not pay me to go through that level of ridicule. Or the few scientists who were ignored and ridiculed because they dared suggest people populated the Americas at least 10,000 years pre-Clovis.

Right. 60,000 years ago humans were crossing oceans with surprising aplomb. How do we know that? Evidence.

That and people with special ability don't care what you think (in some cases because they are making too much money).

Or they know how to sell snake oil to the rubes.

Let's turn the question around. When are you going to produce scientific proof that Henry is using hot or cold reading? It would be easy enough to do. You don't even need his cooperation.

I can trivially do anything he does. With or without his cooperation.
Prove me wrong.

 

[the Sphinx]

I have perfomed more accurate readings than that twonk while drunk, because these days I do not do that anymore, so one has to get me well oiled to even bother anymore.

A lot of people have made this claim to me, but when I challenge them, the results are laughable. The idea that you can go what Henry does well enough to fool a national TV audience and an 80 man crew is not credible.

In any event, what you can or can't do has nothing to do with what Henry can or can't do.

If you are interested, I can give you my full name and address, where I work and where I live. I'll bet money to your favorite charity, you can't learn a single thing about me--it would be that hard--but you claim Henry is doing this ever week with four people. And fooling his own TV crew. That doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Resume]

Considering how much money a guy like Henry can make, a guy with otherwise no apparent skill set . . .

What do you mean no skill set? His skill is fooling people; he has sure fooled you.

Faking it week after week would be a Herculean task. Especially with a TV monitor in the other room while the subject is being read and family are commenting live. Week after week. You'd eventually get found out.

You can't be this naive. Or maybe you can. John Edward, the idiotic Long Island phony, Van Praagh all had pretty good runs pimping their bull ****, without getting found out because no one associated with them gave a **** as long as the ratings were worth it.

Take the seances at the turn of last century.

No thanks.

"Beguiling the credulous" or is he doing something you can't understand so you refuse to look at it.

He's doing the same thing hucksters have done forever: fool people.

Again, you don't know where you are.

 

[the Sphinx]

I would not have guessed.

Right. 60,000 years ago humans were crossing oceans with surprising aplomb. How do we know that? Evidence.

Our conversation ISN't about ideas or claims for which we have evidence. That would be ridiculous. We are discussing those things for which "evidence" is difficult or ambiguous or lacking. The question isn't 60,000 years ago. It is 70,000 years ago.

Try and keep up.

>>I can trivially do anything he does. With or without his cooperation.
Prove me wrong.

If you can go on a national TV show and fool 20 people and their families and a TV crew each week, you don't need me to prove you wrong. Just go do it. I would think the Discovery Channel would be happy to pay you much less than Henry to do the same thing. Get an expose. The National Inquirer will cut you an immediate check.

 

[abaddon]

Considering how much money a guy like Henry can make, a guy with otherwise no apparent skill set, lots of people would be doing what Henry does.

Lots are can and are doing it right now.

But in fact most people can't.

False. Anyone can do it. I could teach you to do it. It is not difficult.

They can't read the dead and the can't learn to fake it well enough to fool an 80 man crew, executives at the Discovery Channel and all the people he reads.

All the people he reads are known in the trade as the marks. The executives in Discovery do not care. Another sheap ass program built on BS? They will have some of that laziness. The 80 man crew? They are likely so jaded with the nonsense Disco puts out these days that they couldn't care less. It's just a job. Disco could put out a documentary about the global consequences of a yeti mating with a bigfoot to produce a Yetfoot or possibly a Biggiti. Idiots would lap it up.

Faking it week after week would be a Herculean task. Especially with a TV monitor in the other room while the subject is being read and family are commenting live. Week after week. You'd eventually get found out.

trivially easy to do. Have done it. have lied the entire way.

Take the seances at the turn of last century. You know about this because the phenomena of doing it or faking doing it is so rare.

Been there too, faked it just like all the others before me. You will be on about ectoplasm next.

"Beguiling the credulous" or is he doing something you can't understand so you refuse to look at it.

I don't have to look at it I have done it. I know how it works. I know how to fool people. I know how they miss the obvious. Hell, I still miss the obvious.

 

[Resume]

A good analysis.

If Henry can truly speak to the dead, it would be the most important discovery in the history of the world. But rather than take his gift to scientists or religious leaders, Henry has decided to speak to actors about their grandmothers and deceased pets on a reality show. Before this story published, The Outline asked Henry’s publicist one last time if he could prove his abilities. We did not get a response.

These people are just parasites, preying on the grieving, selling them fictions.

So far none of them, none of them, have demonstrated their (snicker) abilities under properly controlled and observed conditions. I always forget how heinous these phonies are until another apologist comes along spewing the same old tired apologetics.

 

[abaddon]

Our conversation ISN't about ideas or claims for which we have evidence. That would be ridiculous. We are discussing those things for which "evidence" is difficult or ambiguous or lacking. The question isn't 60,000 years ago. It is 70,000 years ago.

Try and keep up.

>>I can trivially do anything he does. With or without his cooperation.
Prove me wrong.

If you can go on a national TV show and fool 20 people and their families and a TV crew each week, you don't need me to prove you wrong. Just go do it. I would think the Discovery Channel would be happy to pay you much less than Henry to do the same thing. Get an expose. The National Inquirer will cut you an immediate check.

Still cannot figure out the quote function yet? OK.

So you are encouraging me to use whatever skills I may have to lie and cheat people out of actual money.

At least we discovered where your ethics are.

 

[the Sphinx]

A good analysis.

These people are just parasites, preying on the grieving, selling them fictions.

So far none of them, none of them, have demonstrated their (snicker) abilities under properly controlled and observed conditions. I always forget how heinous these phonies are until another apologist comes along spewing the same old tired apologetics.

You are making a lot of empty statements, none of which have anything to do with what I'm writing. I understand that you think "these people are just parasites." No need to keep writing your opinion. I got that.

>have demonstrated their (snicker) abilities under properly controlled and observed conditions.

Right. This has been answered. How about you respond with something to advance the conversation instead of empty insults.

Answer: #1 Alverez and Wegener didn't have anything properly controlled and their ideas were ridiculed. As is Loeb's ideas currently. So what? Could Henry be for real? I say absolutely.

According to Feynman 90% of science starts off as a guess, an intuition.

Answer #2: You make all sorts of claims I think are false and for which there is no "properly controlled conditions" and for which you have no evidence.

Let's start with hot and cold readings and your "controlled and observed conditions."

 

[Resume]

According to Feynman 90% of science starts off as a guess, an intuition.

He also called paranormal woo like psychic mediumship cargo cult science.

Psychic mediumship has never been demonstrated to exist under properly controlled and observed conditions. Ever.

However Barnum statements, shotgunning, hot and cold reading, and out and out guessing have been demonstrated.