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Medium Colin Fry

showme2 said:
OK - let's forget Randi and his bogus $1million challenge.
What WOULD you accept ?

A scientifically stringent testing, by a reputable authority, not on mediumship, but on psychology, cold reading, and the scientific method, would be a good place to start. A setup where "cheating" would be impossible, and a true result can be garnered. I want a test that, if it were not actually set up by Mr. Randi, or his fellow magicians, then at least one that they would approve of, if they were part of the testing.

Am I saying that Mr. Fry is a fraud? No. I do have an opinion on the matter, but that is not really germane. The fact is, this sort of mediumship can be faked, without too much difficulty.

The reason we go to magicians, such as Randi, or Penn and Teller, to help us set up such tests is because THEY know how to trip up such tests. They know what to look for, you know? Just like casinos hiring card mechanics to help spot other mechanics. Look, when you are buying a diamond ring, you want it appraised, or certified, right? Why? Because you and I and the average Joe on the street cannot tell the difference, just by looking, between a beautiful and valuable diamond, and a cheap zirconium knockoff. You don't want to be ripped off, naturally! That's why we trust to an expert, be he diamond appraiser for our jewelry, an analyst for our stocks, an accountant for our taxes.

A magician is an expert at fooling people. It's his job!

It's possible to fake being a medium, right? Even you have to grant that it's POSSIBLE. Magicians do it all the time. We want Mr. Fry to take the test, because we know we can be fooled. I do NOT want to be fooled with something as important as this.
 
showme2 said:
OK - let's forget Randi and his bogus $1million challenge.
What WOULD you accept ?

Scientific testing with results accepted by the scientific community as a whole, OR, beating the JREF challenge.
 
Am I saying that Mr. Fry is a fraud? No. I do have an opinion on the matter, but that is not really germane. The fact is, this sort of mediumship can be faked, without too much difficulty.

Not only that, but there has been no evidence of mediumship that hasn't been faked.

It's possible to fake being a medium, right?

Every successful medium is evidence of this, since there is no such thing as a real medium.
 
Stumpy said:
Fry will claim that the use of infrared harms him. However it didn't stop him having this photo of him producing ectoplasm taken, using infrared. I think this picture settles the debate once and for all wheteher Fry does or doesn't have mediumistic abilities.....he doesn't!:D

http://www.spiritsinc.co.uk/colin_ectoplasm.html

[/B]

Nice picture. It looks like the guy fell asleep after too much drink and his 'mates' decided to decorate him. :D

Or maybe it was a ghost with a sense of humor. :eek:

STJ
 
showme2:
Colin Fry has 1.5 million people watching 6ixth Sense, and can fill a 2000+ theatre wherever he demonstrates his gifts.

Why should he be concerned with obliging a dozen sceptics of THIS forum?

Damned if I would either !!!!

I have to agree. If I was a fraud making lots of money scamming the gullible, the last thing in the world I would want to do is risk killing the golden goose by having some skeptic prove I'm a fraud.

I mean, why should he risk being tested when there is a vast herd of willing sheep waiting to be sheared who require no kind of proof at all?
 
SteveGrenard said:
# Should we dismiss your admittedly personal anecdote with Camille Walsh, yes or no?

Yes. If you wish.

Very well: The best example you got of a paranormal phenomenon, and you admit that it should be dismissed.

SteveGrenard said:
# Why do you suddenly need to have had a personal experience with a psychic, before you can determine whether the psychic in question is valid or not?

Yes. If it were not for this experience, then I would not have accepted the validity of this psosibility.

We hear this reason so often, it is almost a natural law.

SteveGrenard said:
# Is that your reason for not questioning Camille Walsh the same way you question Colin Fry? You have had personal experiences with both, yet you treat them very differently.

I went to Walsh anonymously. In full daylight. No tricks. No darkened rooms. No claims. No ghostly voices, no sing alongs, no hands touching me in the dark, no prior checking of identities, no pat down searches. She talked in the first person for nearly two hours. I got up, asked her how much; she replied if I wasnt pleased I didnt have to pay her and she refused my money. I gave it to her anyway. Fry, or his protege anyway, did not show up. His group engaged in all of the above. I contacted him to complain and he accused me, without provocation, of testing him, of investigating him. He wasnt even there. We were not anonymous, and even more so should a confederate have searched through my wife's handbag while she was locked inside the seance room and it was locked outside. I have had no further contact with Wlash as I had no reason to.
I did with Fry.

Steve, you did not go to Walsh anonymously. You went there through a person who knew both you and Walsh. But I can certainly understand why you doubt Colin Fry. Why don't you doubt Brian Hurst the same way? He also dabbles in ghostly voices, dark seances, and even psychic surgery.

SteveGrenard said:
# Are you aware of the uselessness of personal anecdotes, yes or no?

I said this repeatedly. I also gave the reason why I even brought it up. Personal anecdoes are of no use to anyone other than the experiencer(s).

So, what is left, Steve? You come up with the best you got, and you admit that it is worthless. What is left?

SteveGrenard said:
# Are you saying (now) that we should not attach any significance to your anecdote, who tells of a psychic who got almost 200 statements right during a reading?

You are free to do what you want. So is anyone else.

But you admit that your experience is worthless.

SteveGrenard said:
# Does a psychic need to have been asked by SPR, before we can attach any significance to his/her claims?

I do not understand this convoluted question. Psychics have been debunked and validated by the SPR for one hundred and twnety years. I and many others consider them an authrotiy. Skeptics such as Wiseman and Blackmore have pubished in their journal; even Randi had an item in there recently.

You point to SPR as a reason for you doubting Fry.

SteveGrenard said:
# Do you consider SPR the decisive body of authority in psychic matters?

I consider the SPR, and in the US, the SPR's now divorced sister group, the ASPR in that category. There are researchers in this city and nearby with similar credbility for doing this such as Carlos Alvarado, Nancy Zingrone and in Baltimore, Stephen Braude and a few others. I have mentioned Walsh to the PF as well which is the organization founded by Eileen Garrett, to investigate mediumship. So far, insofar as I am aware, no one has expressed an interest to me but since I do not have any contact with Walsh, somebody may've contacted her directly and I do not know if this is true or what may've become of such an offer if it was made.

I find your lack of interest in pursuing this fantastic medium very telling. Here, you claim, we have a medium who comes up with hardly any misses, right? Just about everything is dead-on (if you'll pardon the pun)? But no, you got up and left, with a worthless anecdote in your pocket.

SteveGrenard said:
Added: Since I had this prior experience with Walsh, it would be better if I had no contact or involvement in setting up any scientific investigation of her. This should be self-evident.

Why? You had no problems with Schwartz contacting the mediums at Arizona and participating in his own experiments. Do you still find this procedure acceptable?
 
F.A.O. SCEPTICUK2

A.K.A "GARY ALLEN" or "PAUL" here on the JREF forum

Whichever name you have as 'flavour of the month' - today -

Whilst trying to round up some of the people on here to go to your pathetic site - squirm out of this one - should be easy for someone who has greater 'magical powers' than anyone ever known.... what was your theatrical name ? The Great Swan ?
( Amend that to the 'Dying Swan'...pleeeeeease !!!)

After your first post here urging the same thing, you denied ever being on this forum as being somewhere you would NEVER go - yet continue to peddle your trash here.....implying that you are a sceptic ..... yet on the site you are attempting to propogate ... you intimate that you are a believer trying to find the truth of the 'alleged' incident regarding Colin Fry.

Come now Scepticuk2/Gary/Paul/Swan - which 'side' ARE you supposed to be on in these debates ?

When inviting people to join you - please make it much clearer to them they are only welcome if they agree with what YOU wish to say; that your site, though inviting people in for debate has nothing to do with the current state of Colin Fry's mediumship at all.... and that, depending upon which hat you are wearing at the time, if the debate is against what you want to say ... they are immediately banned .... not just from posting, but from being able to access the forum altogether, via their IP.

You are having to invent all manner of people as posters, because you cannot get serious debaters to respond to your requests ... well at least not the kind you are wishing to work with.

I have debated on these forums for a long time now, whenever I have seen something that has taken my interest, and one conclusion I have arrived at is that the majority of people posting here are honest basically, even when their opinions differ, and I feel they should also be warned that none of the information you have supplied on your behalf ( i.e. email addresses etc ) bears any resemblance to the truth. YOU yourself are nothing less than one huge fraudulent human specimen.

They do not hold cheats in ANY form in high regard here.

You purport to have mediumsitic powers greater than anyone, and are a healer to boot ..... prove it !!!!

Take the JR test, that you once intimated to me that you could do quite easily. Prove your abilities to the members here .... I challenge you to face James Randi and prove you are what you say you are. You are ready to challenge other people for £50,000 - take up the cudgel for $1,000,000 - I DARE YOU !!!!!!

Freda Watts

(- one of the 'banned' lycos posters, even though I did nothing wrong, and did not resort to uttering the blasphemities I was subjected to, from this atrocious little man without any explanation being given as to why. Bravenet did try to get him to email me but their requests were ignored, and I received an apology that he had falsified the information given to them regarding the contact number they had on their files.)

He really is not worth bothering with. A little fish in a big pond.
 
Showme2

Quote:

"Come back when you know what you're talking about..."


Yeh..

Right...

Im not the one thats claiming Colin Fry is truly talking to dead people...actually gets them to answer...and then move trumpets around...am i, you delusional moron...

Funny you should mention "The News Of The World"....:D

DB
 
Showme2..

If you are referring to me...

I never had an argument to begin with...

I just like laughing at kooks such as yourself...

You see...you actually think Fry is for real...that he can actually communicate with the dead..and manifest spirits that move objects...

That makes you an idiot moronic kookball...nothing else...

Gullible, vunerable, mentally ill people such as yourself, are not worth debating anything with....

I just like laughing at people like you...

Some people pity kooks...fruits...delusional losers...

Me...i laugh my a** off at those less fortunate then myself when it comes to realising the real world..

Exhausted argument...Nah...

I don't waste my time debating with mentally ill people...

You need to visit Shadowlands BB...they believe anything there...

DB
 
Hi Showme2.. From one kook to another apparently.....

I do not usually reply to this person he is on my ignore list .... but couldn't resist passing remarks at his comments to you ......

DB quote:
[I just like laughing at kooks such as yourself ] ...

They do say that little things please little minds though don't they ?

DB quote:
[You see...you actually think Fry is for real...that he can actually communicate with the dead..and manifest spirits that move objects]...

Don't THINK - KNOW !!!!!

DB quote:
[That makes you an idiot moronic kookball...nothing else] ...

Takes one to know one and at least this one -DB- acts like one too.

DB quote:
[Gullible, vunerable, mentally ill people such as yourself, are not worth debating anything with] ....

Precisely - and I have yet to see you DEBATING anything.

DB quote:
[I just like laughing at people like you ]...

Remember - he who laughs last, laughs the longest.

DB quote:
[Some people pity kooks...fruits...delusional losers] ...

There are a lot of them about and have yet to meet a loser in the 'kook' stakes whilst such people as DB are deluding themselves more than anyone. No sane person would ramble on and on as he does - don't think he know how to change the record on that one.

DB quote:
[Me...i laugh my a** off at those less fortunate then myself when it comes to realising the real world] .....

Can't have got much an a** left by now then ... what a character .... what a challenge to welcome him into the REAL world, when his time comes, as this one is only an illusion man has created for himself.

DB quotes:
[Exhausted argument...Nah] ...
[I don't waste my time debating with mentally ill people]...
[You need to visit Shadowlands BB...they believe anything there]...

He doesn't argue he resorts to insults - and as I have suggested here before - who sounds more mentally ill and in need of incarceration in this Shadlowlands place?

Freda
 
This post has been reported as overly rude. While it is over the top from my point of view, I do not find that it violates the rules of the forum. Energetic debate is to be expected, and sometimes (usually daily) that results in name calling.

hal

De_Bunk said:
Showme2..

If you are referring to me...

I never had an argument to begin with...

I just like laughing at kooks such as yourself...

You see...you actually think Fry is for real...that he can actually communicate with the dead..and manifest spirits that move objects...

That makes you an idiot moronic kookball...nothing else...

Gullible, vunerable, mentally ill people such as yourself, are not worth debating anything with....

I just like laughing at people like you...

Some people pity kooks...fruits...delusional losers...

Me...i laugh my a** off at those less fortunate then myself when it comes to realising the real world..

Exhausted argument...Nah...

I don't waste my time debating with mentally ill people...

You need to visit Shadowlands BB...they believe anything there...

DB
 
Freda said:

Don't THINK - KNOW !!!!!


That would involve Colin Fry actually having superpowers. He doesn't, therefore ShowMe only THINKS/Believes in this nonsense.


Precisely - and I have yet to see you DEBATING anything.


ShowMe isn't debating either, he is just stating that Colin Fry is a real medium ad-nauseum. He hasn't given ONE iota of evidence that Colin Fry has superpowers, that spirits exist or that there is an afterlife. There is no point in trying to debate woo-woos such as ShowMe, especially after he dismisses Colin Fry's cheating as being trickery of the spirit world.


There are a lot of them about and have yet to meet a loser in the 'kook' stakes whilst such people as DB are deluding themselves more than anyone. No sane person would ramble on and on as he does - don't think he know how to change the record on that one.


What is DB delusional about, precisely?


Can't have got much an a** left by now then ... what a character .... what a challenge to welcome him into the REAL world, when his time comes, as this one is only an illusion man has created for himself.


This is only your delusional belief that isn't supported by any evidence.


He doesn't argue he resorts to insults - and as I have suggested here before - who sounds more mentally ill and in need of incarceration in this Shadlowlands place?


ShowMe is mentally ill, it is evidenced by his beliefs. Even when shown that Colin Fry outright cheated, he convinced himself that it wasn't cheating.. it only "looked like" he cheated because spirits made it that way. THAT is insane.
 
Hiya Freda

I had already concluded that De Bunk is deficient in civility and manners, to the extent that I no longer choose to respond to his rantings.

And now we have Ken - allegedly a Thai Boxer, but we have seen no evidence of that apart from the possibility that he has been hit in the head more times than is healthy - claiming powers of medical diagnosis in one of the most difficult areas of medicine. There are clearly no bounds to HIS talents.

And of course they ALL claim to be psychic, since they "know" what happened at Scole even when those who were there are not entirely in agreement about what transpired.

I am reminded again that, whilst "he who knows not and knows he knows not is teachable, he who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool" !
 
showme2 said:
And now we have Ken - allegedly a Thai Boxer, but we have seen no evidence of that apart from the possibility that he has been hit in the head more times than is healthy - claiming powers of medical diagnosis in one of the most difficult areas of medicine. There are clearly no bounds to HIS talents.

And of course they ALL claim to be psychic, since they "know" what happened at Scole even when those who were there are not entirely in agreement about what transpired.

Are you including me in this generalization? I have not addressed Scole, and have attempted to be as even-handed as I can.

However, I do have to agree about TBK.
 
Freda:
Don't THINK - KNOW !!!!!

What do you mean when you say “know”? Do you mean “have credible evidence” or do you mean “believe because I want to believe”? The man was caught perpetrating flagrant fraud, and yet you and showme2 seem determined to defend his legitimacy. I can understand why he would scramble to explain away his obvious fraud: he gains direct financial benefit from the ruse. But what do you gain from defending him? I’m really having a difficult time comprehending your motivation here. I mean, is there anything that would convince you he’s a fraud?
 
espritch said:
I mean, is there anything that would convince you he’s a fraud?

No there isn't, espritch. These people place emotion over evidence. There is nothing that will convince some people that Colin Fry is a fraud, not even catching him in the act.
 
And of course they ALL claim to be psychic, since they "know" what happened at Scole even when those who were there are not entirely in agreement about what transpired.

Where YOU there?
 
J
No, I am NOT including you in that ! You have given me no reason to do so.

TBK
In saw Colin Fry demonstrate live in Cambridge during September this year. This was after watching John Edward, James Van Praagh, and Colin Fry for quite some time on their TV programmes, and concluding that Fry was the only one I could not accuse of Cold Reading. (Edward probably is and JVP certainly is.)
I actually went to Cambridge with the intention of discovering how Colin Fry was doing it, and came away convinced that he was genuine. (I also met him briefly after the demonstration and he is one of the most modest and sincere people I have met.)

My wife and I went back the following night to check it out again, and came away with the same conclusion. This after watching him demonstrate for around 5 hours.
I wonder how many on this forum have ever seen Colin Fry demonstrate live. I would guess none. (TV is no good evidentially because the show is edited.)

Of course, none of this will convince YOU, and nor should it. You have to take the trouble to get the evidence for yourself - or not, just as you choose.

But I am concerned that many here have formed an opinion without ever having seen a live demonstration by Colin Fry, and therefore do not really know what they are talking about.
 

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