Medical question Air embolus

TillEulenspiegel

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T
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I was hospitalized last year for about 3 weeks. I was relesed and did outpatient IV therapy everyday (2Gm Vancomycin if you can believe that).
I was always freaked out about the air gaps in the IV drip line and would wounder as they were so many and so large ( even tho the radius of the IV line was small the gaps could be inches in length) as they entered my system that I could suffer an air embolism. ( the site was a pic line maybe that difused the volume of the air injected).
Was I unduly worried? Was there a real risk?
 
Probably not. In that sealed tube, the air bubble is unlikely to make it through the little hole in the needle, due to surface tension. I'd imagine that the fluid would seep "around" it.

When I was a medic back in the 60's giving GI's shots in long lines with hypodermics, I injected a guy with 2cc's of air...
Didn't seem to hurt him any. (intermuscular, fortunately)
 
No, you were not in danger. The gaps you saw in the IV line were insignificant, of very low volume (regardless of their length--the volume of these lines is small) and did not put you at risk of air embolism.

Besides blocking a peripheral vein with a small air embolism is not dangerous either. Air will diffuse before it causes any significant problems and not reach critical arteries such as the coronaries or carotids where massive air embolisms can kill or severely injure you.

The following is from e-medicine regarding large volumes of air...

"Entry of air into the venous system produces signs and symptoms by affecting the right ventricle, pulmonary circulation, or systemic circulation (if right-to-left shunts are present). Small amounts of air do not produce symptoms because air is removed from the circulation. Large boluses of air (3-8 mL/kg) can cause acute right ventricular outflow obstruction and result in cardiogenic shock and circulatory arrest. Intermediate amounts of air collect in the pulmonary circulation and produce a pulmonary vascular injury manifested by pre- and postcapillary pulmonary vasoconstriction, pulmonary hypertension, endothelial injury, and permeability pulmonary edema."


Systemic arterial air embolism, however, is life threatening. It occurs most frequently during open heart surgery
and other open procedures where large volumes of air can gain entry into the circulation. Talking here about literally 100s of ccs. Another common cause is rapid ascent from diving where rapid decompression causes bubble formation, particularly in the joints (bends-very painful) but also can cause air embolism as well.
 
Your answeras seem to make sense. I used to work at a woodworking factory. We used to clean shop with the airhose everyFriday. I was told not to hold the air nozzle up to my skin for that very reason. And back THEN I wondered if that was a wives tale, or if there was truth to that air embolism thing. We ran pressure at over 100 psi.

On a lighter note: IF you fear that air got into your blood...justy stand up. The air will
 
Your answers seem to make sense. I used to work at a woodworking factory. We used to clean shop with the airhose every Friday. I was told not to hold the air nozzle up to my skin for that very reason. And back THEN I wondered if that was a wives tale, or if there was truth to that air embolism thing. We ran pressure at over 100 psi.

On a lighter note: IF you fear that air got into your blood...just stand up. The air will then go to your head. The worst that will happen is that you will turn into an ...(drum roll)...air-head. :D
 
If you were using industrial air pressure nozzles emitting air at 100+psi I think it would be a very good idea not to press your luck by pressing such forces against bare skin in any case. Although if the skin is intact and not fragile it shouldnt be a problem. Why would one want to do this anyway?
 
Steve---Why? Well, we would blow the sawdust off ourselves as well. Not that you would intentionally touch the nozzle to your skin. But what if you did, while you were wisking the nozzle around your body, and you accidentally did so?
 
Iamme said:
Steve---Why? Well, we would blow the sawdust off ourselves as well. Not that you would intentionally touch the nozzle to your skin. But what if you did, while you were wisking the nozzle around your body, and you accidentally did so?
Click to expand...

Using such an airstream to blow the dust off yourself sounds pretty innocuous and, as I said, if your skin was intact and not particularly fragile, touching the skin directly shouldnt be a problem either. Obviously at some point high pressures could damage the skin with sustained application. But air diffusing through heathy intact skin into the blood vessels, not possible.

Presumably you were wearing goggles and a respirator or dust mask as well so there was no danger from blowing sawdust into the eyes or air passages.
 
Steve---Per your last paragraph. I was young and didn't worry as much about stuff then as I do now. I had been walking 1 foot wide beams high up off the ground before this, in construction. So, sawdust precautions were taken lightly. When you are young, you always think that bad things can only happen to other people.
 
I don't know whether the danger of air embolism in humans is exaggerated or not, but in my experience animals seem not to be noticeably susceptible to the effect.

I wonder if it's one of these "this awful consequence might happen," maybe 1 in 100 or 1 in 1,000, rather than an inevitable event. Seems likely, if in fact the pathogenesis is the air causing an infarct in the heart or the brain. There are a lot more likely places for it to end up where it probably wouldn't do a great deal of harm.

Rolfe.
 
During the holidays in secondary school I used to work in the famous Bryant and May match factory. A pressurized air hose was used to clean machines and one day two fellow workers were fooling around. One jokingly directed the hose up the others anus. He did not suffer air embolism but he did need a colostomy for a ruptured rectum. :(
 
Iamme,

Iamme said:
I was young and didn't worry as much about stuff then as I do now. I had been walking 1 foot wide beams high up off the ground before this, in construction.
Click to expand...
Where you a.....

Steel Monkey

As the moon slips up, and the sun sets down,
I'm a highrise jockey, and I'm heaven-bound.
Do the workboot shuffle, loose brains from brawn.
I'm a monkey puzzle and the lid is on.

Can you guess my name? Can you guess my trade?
I'm going to catch you anyway.
You might be right. I'll give you guesses three.
Feel me climbing up your knee.
Guess what I am. I'm a steel monkey.

Now some men hustle and some just think.
And some go running before you blink.
Some look up and some look down
from three hundred feet above the ground.

Can you guess my name? And can you guess my trade?
Well, I won't rest before the world is made.
Arm in arm the angels fly.
Keep me from falling out the sky.

I work in the thunder and I work in the rain.
I work at my drinking, and I feel no pain.
I work on women, if they want me to.
You can have me climb all over you.

Now, have you guessed my name?
And have you guessed my trade?
I'm cheap at the money I get paid.
In the sulphur city, where men are men,
we bolt those beams then climb again.
Steel monkey.

(Ian Anderson)

BillyJoe.
 
The concern about pressurized air is not so much air embolism, but (as BJ points out) injury, which can be quite serious. Also, under adverse conditions, the pressurized air can inject particles and oil (which is always present in PA unless very effectively cleaned) into the tissue, and this can give serious infections, sometimes resulting in amputation.

Hans
 
BillyJoe---Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull?

When I walked these 'beams', they were not steel beams. They were plywood forms to make cement beams. We were 6 stories up, placing one foot on the cross brace ("horse"), and the other foot alternately on the 2 X 4 "whaler", that holds the forms in a straight line. I was walking, carrying a very large vibrator/hose wrapped around my neck, plus I had to grab ahold of the concrete bucket, when the crane flew it up there. You'd never get me doing that stuff now though.:crazy: ...because that is exactly what you have to be. Young too...where you think only OTHER people have accidents and die. Oh...and I wasn't THAT that crazy. When we did this, the fall was only 1 story one way...6 stories the other. Guess which way I was leaning?:D
 
Iamme,

Iamme said:
BillyJoe---Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull?
Click to expand...
Yes, from the album "Crest of a Knave". Are you a fan?

Iamme said:
....the fall was only 1 story one way...6 stories the other. Guess which way I was leaning?:D
Click to expand...
Depends on whether you want to die.......or survive a quadriplegic. :(

BillyJoe
 
Billy Joe---I am not necessarily a 'fan' any more than I am of the other singers/groups I have in my 300+ collection. But they rank right up there. I can't remember the name of the album, but I have the one with Locomotive Breath on it. The picture on the album cover is that of a behaggered old homeless looking guy. I think this was probably their first album (at least over here).

And I certainly had no death wishes when I was up on the edges of those plywood forms. If only OSHA had known about this. I remember telling myself back then (and I'm not making this up): "So help me...if I get killed over this idiot (boss) making us get up here and do this....I'm going to call OSHA!":mad:
 
Iamme,

Sorry this may not be of interest, but anyway.....

"Locomotive Breath" was from "Aqualung" which did indeed have "a behaggered old homeless looking guy" on the cover as you put it. His name was "Aqualung" (water on the lungs) ;). Made in 1971, it was their 4th album after "This Was", "Stand Up" and "Benefit". In Australia the first JT album was their 5th called "Thick as a Brick". I've been hooked ever since. There have been 28 albums over 35 years as well as several live albums and collections and recently a DVD "Living With The Past". Unfortunately, they're hard to get over here and I generally have to order them from overseas. Apart from my wife, (who had their full collection up until the time we met) I have never met another JT fan.

BillyJToe
 
BillyJoe---No JT fans? Really. Thanks for all the info on them. I had no idea they cut so many records. If you are anywhere near the mid-century mark like I am, it becomes rarer to find people who appreciate what one could call the foundational music to rock and roll. Most people who are alive today are supposed to be younger than me....at least according to something I heard on the radio the other day. As time goes on, you will be lucky if you find people who even HEARD of them. Kids today consider groups like say Bon Jovi, or even U2, to be 'old'. When you start getting back towards Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd music, you are getting into the geriatic age. In my local newspaper they have birthdays of celebs, daily. Many of the rockers we are familiar with are...in their late 50's, and 60's.:v:
 
Yes, JT's lead singer/songwriter/flutist, Ian Anderson, was born in 1949 so he is in his mid fifties. His long locks have gone, he is balding on top and he has filled out in the middle. I also have records produced by Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd. :cool:
 
This is too freakin funny......................
Guess who I was hangin out with the other day???

Ian Anderson, hehe, he had a show in Tampa, Fl . The wife and I are both in "the biz" she's an scenic and I'm an electrician ( when i feel like it ) She was painting a set at the Tampa Bay Performing Arts Center and the band came in. She got gratis tickets and backstage access. The only bad part was it was an "unplugged" thing , Ian said Martin Barre was workin on a solo thing. The stage set was a small band set and an EZ-chair and couch , he did back n forth with the audiance it was cool, guy's a regular smartass.
 
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