• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Media Bias Anyone?

It's always interesting to see the excuses ideologues will dredge up to excuse the failure of their ideas in a competitive market.

Unfortunetly the idiological leanings that atchive the best profit levels on talk radio have no particular reason to correate with those that would produce the best result were they used to govern a country.

Yeah. And that explains their steady slide in readership as well. Try again.

Readership of newspapers has been droping in pretty much all sectors. I doubt it is idiologicaly driven.
 
And something like 100% would say that they supported truthful journalism and proper research. Are you suggesting that these kind of figures have some kind of relationship with journalistic output?

Of course. Journalists are subject to confirmation bias like anybody else. Sometimes the bias is obvious, and sometimes it only shows up in the subjects reported. Why did Mary Mapes and Dan Rather air the ridiculous 60 Minutes piece on Bush's Air National Guard duty, despite gaping flaws in the evidence? Because they were blinded by their confirmation bias.
 
Brainster, the link to the Anchorage newspaper in the Powerline quote is wrong. It should go to this page:

http://www.adn.com/front/story/343508.html

I don't imply any hanky-panky, just a misjuggled link somewhere. Powerline links correctly in another post.

And the paper makes it clear that she wasn't standing up to Congress, as she now claims, but the Alaskan delegation. That's whose feathers she was ruffling.

A common target for earmark snipers is the so-called "bridge to nowhere" plugged by Alaska Rep. Don Young into the five-year transportation bill in 2005. Congress stripped the earmarks directing the spending but let the state keep the money to use on the bridge if it wanted.

Palin ruffled feathers when she announced - without giving the delegation advance notice - that the state was killing the Ketchikan bridge to Gravina Island, site of the airport and a few dozen residents.

Palin's office said a state transportation official had earlier told Stevens the project was too expensive. Palin has said the federal funding was short and Congress clearly wasn't going to pay for the rest of such a controversial bridge.

So she was standing up with Congress against Stevens and the rest of the Alaskan delegation. Contrary to how Palin tells the story now, it's more appropriate to say that Palin said "No thanks" to Ted Stevens and "Thanks" to Congress.
 
Bias in news reporting is nothing new and I am surprised that people seemed shocked by it. The press is not under any obligation to be independent when it comes to politics. Freedom of the press allows them to be as biased as they want to.


The problem is when they engage in biases all the while claiming to be a completely independant, down the middle news source. Regardless of which side they are shilling for.

It's hypocrisy.

The corporate media are adamantly right-wing and they are silencing any dissent their money will allow them to silence.


I actually want to thank you for this comment. It's helping me to understand you better.

Hard to listen to a signal so weak that it is drowned out by stations two thousdand miles away as soon as the sun goes down.


The local "conservative" radio station here in Milwaukee is News Talk 1130, WISN. They've had the exact same problem for as long as they've been in existence. In the winter they are on low power from something like 4pm on, and they have many highly rated nightly conservative shows.. not just Rush during the day. It hasn't hurt them, ever. Not to mention that if you work downtown, you can't pick up 1130AM to save your life in any of the big, downtown office buildings. It comes in horribly, even when at full power. It's well known around here. It is massivley static and interference in nearly all the big downtown office buildings.

One of our most "liberal" stations is News Radio 620, at the other end of the dial, and owned by the Journal corporation (our local newspaper). They have had a great spot on the dial for decades. They never have any of those intereference or reception issues. It's a very strong signal, everywhere, even downtown. And they have some of the worst rated shows of all. They have the Packers and Brewers, their only saving grace.

The right wingers own the signals and only grudgingly allow a liberal station to come into a market


ROFL... take it to the CT forums please. What a joke. I just demonstrated clearly that what you said is completely untrue, with real world examples of our own local radio stations that are most "left" vs "right".
 
Last edited:
The charge isn't that the media engages in one-sided coverage, the charge is that it's biased. That's not the same thing. And there have in fact been studies on the question of media bias. Here's a bit about one of them:
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx

Some of the flaws in that study should be obvious. Assuming that if a politician and a newspaper quote the same think tank, they have the same political beliefs? Try

http://mediamatters.org/items/200512220003?f=s_search
 
Some of the flaws in that study should be obvious.

I understand that. I also understand that there are no purely objective means to measure bias, but that doesn't make it non-existent. I'm also not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that the overwhelming self-identification of journalists as democrats (and the overwhelming political donations of journalists to democratic candidates) isn't going to have any effect in the way that they cover news. Of course it will. Media bias isn't the end of the world, but it's there.
 
I understand that. I'm also not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that the overwhelming self-identification of journalists as democrats (and the overwhelming political donations of journalists to democratic candidates) isn't going to have any effect in the way that they cover news.

(bolding mine)

This is just another example of lies by conservatives that get repeated over and over again until people take them as gospel. Most media companies have ethics policies which forbid political donations by reporters. Thus the vast majority of journalists made no donations to candidates of either party. This makes it impossible to draw any meaningful conclusion from the actions of those few who did donate: they are not a representative sample of the group.
 
Of course. Journalists are subject to confirmation bias like anybody else. Sometimes the bias is obvious, and sometimes it only shows up in the subjects reported. Why did Mary Mapes and Dan Rather air the ridiculous 60 Minutes piece on Bush's Air National Guard duty, despite gaping flaws in the evidence? Because they were blinded by their confirmation bias.

Oh dear as n=very small number is not a good method by which to draw a conclusion. Confirmation bias has an impact but not as a key factor and not for the most part in the way you reference.
 
No one ever goes against policy, right? :rolleyes:

They could it doesn't matter. Your average journalist has little in the way of control over the editorial line or even the stories carried.
 
No one ever goes against policy, right? :rolleyes:

not those that want to keep their jobs. Maybe the Republicans are just more ethical than the Democrats. Or more stingy. Or unwilling to admit their bias. Regardless, those that do violate the policy are not representative of the whole. They are not randomly selected.

Say there are 10,000 journalists in the country. 134 donate to democrats. 23 donate to Republicans. 2 donate to both. The other 9,850 donate to neither.

Does this prove that journalists are strongly biased towards the Democrats, as those who have published such "studies" claim? I think you could more easily argue that it shows that most journalists are neutral. Although in reality what it shows is that you can't tell squat because 98.5% didn't answer the question.
 
Last edited:
It's not really about donations. That is relatively identifiable and measurable in the long run. It's about actions and intent. It is not something that can neccassarily be "proved" but can be inferred (and admittedly be inferred with bias).
 
Not at all. I was just pointing out that all too often, for his purposes, when McCain opens his mouth, something irrational, absurd, mean-spirited or false comes out. Like his getting his panties in a bunch over the lipstick comment.
Which was "irrational, absurd, mean-spirited or false"... How, exactly?
 
Hard to listen to a signal so weak that it is drowned out by stations two thousdand miles away as soon as the sun goes down.
So left-wing radio is boring and incompetent?

The right wingers own the signals and only grudgingly allow a liberal station to come into a market.
"Allow"? What does "allow" have to do with it? If there were a market, there would be left-wing radio shows. There isn't, because it makes for lousy radio. Or has so far, anyway.

Do you really believe that there is more of a market for high school football and basketball than for a dissenting political voice?
Absolutely!

There is no market for a dissenting voice on a station that covers thousdands of square miles, but there is a market for another Spanish music station in the same area with twenty other similar?
Without the demographics, I can't answer that one with certainty, but sure, why not?

Don't feed me compost and call it chocolate mousse.
And don't complain that the chocolate mousse is compost just because you wanted caramel.

Or... something.

Newspapers are losing advertising revenue to the senders of unsolicited junk mail because that has become the medium of choice since Nixon didled the Post Office around.
Newspapers are losing advertising revenue because their subscriptions are in a nose dive. The entire industry is collapsing.
 
This is just another example of lies by conservatives that get repeated over and over again until people take them as gospel. Most media companies have ethics policies which forbid political donations by reporters. Thus the vast majority of journalists made no donations to candidates of either party. This makes it impossible to draw any meaningful conclusion from the actions of those few who did donate: they are not a representative sample of the group.
Why are they not a representative sample?
 
Because they are not randomly selected.
Okay. But that doesn't say they're not a representative sample, it just says that we don't know that they're a representative sample. That time.

But if every study shows a bias - the same bias - then unless every sample is non-representative in the exact same way, then the bias is real.

Every study does show the same bias.

The bias is real. (Quite apart from being blindingly obvious in the first place.)

And your claim that this is a Republican lie is a lie.
 
This is just another example of lies by conservatives that get repeated over and over again until people take them as gospel. Most media companies have ethics policies which forbid political donations by reporters. Thus the vast majority of journalists made no donations to candidates of either party. This makes it impossible to draw any meaningful conclusion from the actions of those few who did donate: they are not a representative sample of the group.

So it's true but unrepresentative... and therefore a lie. Yeah, um, it looks like you're... overstretching your criticism, to put it mildly.
 
Okay. But that doesn't say they're not a representative sample, it just says that we don't know that they're a representative sample. That time.

Meaning that we can draw no reliable conclusion from the results.

But if every study shows a bias - the same bias - then unless every sample is non-representative in the exact same way, then the bias is real.
10 bad studies do not make one good study. Sorry.

Every study does show the same bias.
Really? Every study? Perhaps you have some evidence of this?

The bias is real. (Quite apart from being blindingly obvious in the first place.)
Really? I don't watch a lot of TV, so I cannot answer from personal experience. I get most of my news from NPR. Which, interestingly enough, is usually touted as a bastion of liberalism, yet one of the studies above labeled the News Hour with Jim Lehrer as the most balanced source. So much for "blazingly obvious". The only station for whom I see an obvious bias in their news shows is "fair and balanced we report you decide" Fox. And it ain't liberal. Go figure.
And your claim that this is a Republican lie is a lie.
It is a lie that the study in question proves liberal bias of the media. It is so flawed in its design that it proves nothing. At best it shows the possibility of bias that could be addressed in better controlled studies.

Let me ask a more general question. Can you conclude that a group is biased just because they come to a different conclusion than the general population? Let us say that half the population supports evolution and the other half creationism. If we were to ask science reporters if they supported intelligent design or evolution, and found that 98% supported evolution, would you conclude that reporters were biased? I wouldn't. I would instead assert that the reporters were probably more interested in the subject than the general population, were more intelligent, had more scientific training, had examined the evidence in more detail, and perhaps were less biased by religious beliefs. They had then made a relatively unbiased decision that evolution better fits available data than creationism.

If you will accept that science reporters believing evolution theory does not prove science reporters bias, then it is equally reasonable to accept that even if journalists support Democrats this does not prove journalistic bias. It may simply be a reflection that those who study the political parties in detail for the most part come to the conclusion that the Democratic party has better policies than the republicans.

Take, for example, Reagan and supply side economics. Reagan says he can cut taxes, increase defense spending, and balance the budget. Reporters go out and talk to economists, who by a 10-1 margin (I made up the number) say that this is snake oil: it won't work, and it will lead to huge deficits. The reporters conclude that Mondale's economic policies are better for the country and support him 10-1 in the election (also a made up number). 55% or so of the population, however, buys the snake oil and votes for Reagan. Were the reporters biased, or just better informed? Does the fact that Reagan's policies did lead to huge deficits, and that some of his own economic advisers later admitted that they didn't believe the projections, affect your opinion?

The other hurdle you need to clear is that even if you could prove that 100% of reporters support the democrats, this still would not prove that they cannot put their opinions aside when they report the news. I admit that it is unlikely that some bias would not creep in. A sports reporter may support the hometown team, but he still reports the final score accurately. He may be easier or tougher on the hometown players, but the degree to which this flavors his commentary is far from given.
 
Actually, I have come to the conclusion that the "liberal bias" meme is the result of the fact that it takes a greater degree of intelligence to be a successful journalist than to be a political hack.

I remember, during the Reagan years, right wingers whining that the journalists and disgruntled working people thought they were smarter than their great leader.

Turns out that by the middle of his time in office, bloody near everyone was smarter.
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom