McCain: "Number One Issue... Will This Person Carry On In the Judeo-Christian Prin."

[Tsukasa Buddha]

McCain: "Number One Issue... Will This Person Carry On In the Judeo-Christian Prin."

Just to balance the Obama love on this forum with some McCain.



So apparently the Constitution founded the US as a Christian nation without ever referring to Christianity...

 

[Darth Rotor]

Just to balance the Obama love on this forum with some McCain.



So apparently the Constitution founded the US as a Christian nation without ever referring to Christianity...

OMFG, you are the first person on the JREF forums to ever come up with this idea.

Shall I nom this post?

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

OMFG, you are the first person on the JREF forums to ever come up with this idea.

Shall I nom this post?

Qua?

I know that everyone here disagrees with these views (Except for Jerome probably), that's kinda why I posted that McCain was saying them.

 

[boloboffin]

It's amazing. He's almost to the point where he can say that without choking. He really wants to be president.

 

[corplinx]

What's the news here? Most of america thinks that's true. Since McCain is old enough to remember the signing of the constitution though I think he's just pandering.

 

[Puppycow]

OK, so both candidates pander to Christians and Jews (Obama put out a pamphlet emphasising his Christian faith, and pandered to AIPAC). This is presidential politics.

As an atheist I wish religion was kept out of politics and certainly out of goverment, but the political reality of a democracy is that voters are free to vote based on any criteria they want. There are probably millions who will vote based on religious criteria, like it or not.

 

[corplinx]

I fully expect for a candidate to say that country was founded on christian ethics since its one of the most pervasive political myths there is and many of them believe it strongly.

The counter to this is Obama saying the country is no longer a christian nation. Since it never was a christian nation.

Why get hung up on this stuff when theres so much good "McCain is old" and "Obama is an empty suit" stuff to roll with.

 

[Cleon]

Obama's views on the subject:

 

[Darth Rotor]

I suggest y'all take a look at this thread:

Some good stuff there on the topic.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21282

Luke T made a decent argument in support of the following statement in post 4, and the discussion continued from there.

The christian foundaton of the US is not alleged. It is fact.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

There is a seperation of church and state in the US. Sadly no seperation of church and politics.

 

[Darth Rotor]

There is a seperation of church and state in the US. Sadly no seperation of church and politics.

Why is that sad? The people are in many cases religious, and the people are involved, more or less, with politics. It is predictable. It comes with the institution of consent of the goverened.

Messy? Sure. Any fantasy that politics is easy needs to be discarded. Why?

Authoritarinism is easy: my way or the highway. Democracy and republicanism are harder, but worth the effort.

DR

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Because I feel -as you know- that to profess belief in something without any compelling evidence, is a mistake.

That said, if they do believe in it, they of course have every right to shout it from the rooftops (Until 12:00 when I go to sleep) until their lungs can shout no more.

 

[Upchurch]

Obama's views on the subject:

That's fantastic. Do you know if there is a transcript of the full thing or where and when it was given?

 

[Cleon]

That's fantastic. Do you know if there is a transcript of the full thing or where and when it was given?

Can't say that I do. I just happened across it because PZ Myers linked to it this morning.

 

[varwoche]

OK, so both candidates pander to Christians and Jews

Pandering ain't pretty. But worse than that is an aspirant to the presidency displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of the constitution.

the Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation

 

[Upchurch]

Following the comments, here is the full deal:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid353515028?bctid=416343938

 

[Dr Adequate]

The Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation.

Luckily for McCain, they unaccountably left out anything that reflected the Seventh Commandment ...

Thou shalt not commit adultery​

... or Matthew 19:3-9 ...

Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"

"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'. So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate ... I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."​

... and Malachi 2:14-16 also seems strangely apt, though I believe it to be metaphorical ...

The LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.

Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.

"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel.​

 

[Darth Rotor]

"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel.[/i][/indent]

Given that the Devil is a lawyer, and that only lawyers profit in a divorce, can you blame Him?

 

[UserGoogol]

Because I feel -as you know- that to profess belief in something without any compelling evidence, is a mistake.

That said, if they do believe in it, they of course have every right to shout it from the rooftops (Until 12:00 when I go to sleep) until their lungs can shout no more.

I don't think religion is particularly unique in this, especially in the world of politics. Ideally yes, religion and politics wouldn't mix. But ideally, we'd be a society of philosopher-scientists who go through life with absolute rigor, and we aren't even remotely close to that. But in so far as stupidity is a deeply entrenched problem, I think it is best that at least we have as diverse a collection of stupidity as possible, so that the beleaguered forces of rationality can pick the nuggets of truth out of the giant pile of B.S. that is society. (Although generally speaking I prefer Obama's approach that people defend their stupid views in secular arguments which can appeal to all people.)

 

[corplinx]

Pandering ain't pretty. But worse than that is an aspirant to the presidency displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of the constitution.

I'm not sure anyone in congress really "gets" the constitution on a fundamental level. By observing their votes, its pretty obvious that none do.