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Maybe Afghanistan wants the Taliban

Hercules56

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Maybe we should stop demanding that the people of Afghanistan choose OUR way of doing things. Maybe they want the Taliban. Or maybe they just don't give a ****.

And if THEY don't give a ****, why should we? Why should we fight for freedom for a people who don't want it, and surely not fighting for it?

This is clearly a situation of "help us help you", and they just don't care.
 
And if they only want freedom if someone else is going to protect it for them, then I guess they don't actually want it.
 
It's not just about Afghansitan. The whole Islamic Militant movement around the world has just gotten a huge victory.
Your viewpoint it pretty short sighted, to say the least.
 
It's not just about Afghansitan. The whole Islamic Militant movement around the world has just gotten a huge victory.
Your viewpoint it pretty short sighted, to say the least.

LOL. There is no such thing as the "islamic militant movement".

Regardless, we can also bomb the **** out of the Taliban from the air.

How many of YOUR children are you willing to send to Afghanistan, to fight a war that their own people won't fight? Are they the 51st state or something?

Is there ANY doubt that after 20 years and $120 billion, we did not give them more than enough training, intelligence and weaponry to successfully defend themselves against the Taliban?????

they gave up cause they dont believe in the fight. why the hell should I?
 
LOL. There is no such thing as the "islamic militant movement".

Regardless, we can also bomb the **** out of the Taliban from the air.

How many of YOUR children are you willing to send to Afghanistan, to fight a war that their own people won't fight? Are they the 51st state or something?

Is there ANY doubt that after 20 years and $120 billion, we did not give them more than enough training, intelligence and weaponry to successfully defend themselves against the Taliban?????

they gave up cause they dont believe in the fight. why the hell should I?

God, that is incredibly ignorant.
But you have one rack mind, I see.
 
Maybe we should stop demanding that the people of Afghanistan choose OUR way of doing things. Maybe they want the Taliban. Or maybe they just don't give a ****.

And if THEY don't give a ****, why should we? Why should we fight for freedom for a people who don't want it, and surely not fighting for it?

This is clearly a situation of "help us help you", and they just don't care.
No, I don't think so, the Taliban have no real democratic legitimacy.
 
No, I don't think so, the Taliban have no real democratic legitimacy.

Considering that Government officials pretty much signed the country over to them without a shot being fired in most cases, I'd say that they do seem to want them, or at least are unwilling to fight not to have them.
 
I'd say it's mainly because nobody felt like dying for a thoroughly corrupt and incompetent government. The same reason that South Vietnam collapsed. A smaller but dedicated force of fighters will almost always beat a larger but dispirited army.
 
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Think it is probably more a case of not having a choice now the US has run away with their tails between their legs again.
 
I'd say it's mainly because nobody felt like dying for a thoroughly corrupt and incompetent government. The same reason that South Vietnam collapsed. A smaller but dedicated force of fighters will almost always beat a larger but dispirited army.

True, but it is going to be like Vietnam in that what the Afghans get might be wrose then then what they had, however inept and corrupt it was.
 
Think it is probably more a case of not having a choice now the US has run away with their tails between their legs again.

What were they supposed to do? Stay there forever? Their mission was successfully completed years ago. Afghanistan has had 18 years to rebuild into something that was capable of withstanding the Taliban. They didn't do it and clearly don't want to do it.
 
What the Afghani don't want is a central government. The Taliban are at least tribal and local, which means that, whichever way their settle disputes, at least they are aware of the local conditions.
The same could not be said about the US supported government in Kabul.
 
What the Afghani don't want is a central government. The Taliban are at least tribal and local, which means that, whichever way their settle disputes, at least they are aware of the local conditions.
The same could not be said about the US supported government in Kabul.

Where did you get this idea from?

Are they all agreed on this?
 
Where did you get this idea from?

Are they all agreed on this?

From everything I've read and seen - yes. The Kabul government was seen as ineffectual, corrupt and out-of-touch, not interested in anything beyond the major cities.
Whatever good that was done did not came from the central government, but from aid organizations and foreign forces.

The reason being that a central government isn't capable of collecting and redistributing taxes. Afghanistan just isn't a nation state.
 
From everything I've read and seen - yes. The Kabul government was seen as ineffectual, corrupt and out-of-touch, not interested in anything beyond the major cities.
Whatever good that was done did not came from the central government, but from aid organizations and foreign forces.

The reason being that a central government isn't capable of collecting and redistributing taxes. Afghanistan just isn't a nation state.

Well, I think that yes there is probably agreement that the central government is corrupt and useless and that it should be replaced with something "better", but now the Taliban have to prove they are that, and of course they won't. So they will end up in the same position as the central government is now, unable to run a country and not speaking for everyone in the country, becoming reviled by various groups and factions, and then civil war.
 
Well, I think that yes there is probably agreement that the central government is corrupt and useless and that it should be replaced with something "better", but now the Taliban have to prove they are that, and of course they won't. So they will end up in the same position as the central government is now, unable to run a country and not speaking for everyone in the country, becoming reviled by various groups and factions, and then civil war.

I think that it will be quite possible it will turn out something like this.

Twenty years ago the fall of the Taliban was very quick after the west started attacking them and the Northern Alliance started their offensive.

Now, twenty years later Afghan people seem to have forgotten how it was under the Taliban, but they do seem to know that what they had in the last years certainly was not how they wanted to be governed.

And thus the Taliban is more or less welcomed back. Maybe not welcomed as such, but seeing them as a better alternative than what was untill recently, the government in kabul.

I think the biggest mistake the west made was going too far too fast in changing their society. Yes we do, tend to, have more democratic and personal freedom, than what do did have over there. But was that really what they aspired to, or wanted as a people (of course there are individual exceptions)?
At heart, Afghanistan, and a lot of other countries there, are very, very religious and conservative.

Maybe helping Afghanistan into a country whose government looked like they had in Iran during the Khomeiny years would have been better? I tend to think this would have been more acceptable to the Afghani people and thus hopefully more longer lasting, than what they had during the last 20 years.
Yes, this is far, far away from western values, but Iran under Khomeiny was much more 'free' than Aghanistan was, and most likely will be, under the Taliban. If that was acceptable to the Afghan people, maybe in due time they would have slowly opened up. Like even Iran is doing right now.

But taking that option would have been absolutely impossible to do by a western power. So we'll never know.

At the moment, the Taliban are in even firmer control of the country than they were twenty years ago, as I don't see a strong Northern Alliance type of counter at this moment.
 
Considering that Government officials pretty much signed the country over to them without a shot being fired in most cases, I'd say that they do seem to want them, or at least are unwilling to fight not to have them.

The Taliban have a fearsome reputation. Maybe surrender is the best way to stop tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians from being slaughtered. :confused:

I understand that Ghengis Khan sometimes offered a similar deal, surrender or be put to the sword.
 

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