Materialism (championed by Darwinists) makes reason Impossible.

[dafydd]

Thought games.
My question to you is: What is the use of these musings?
And I do agree with you, the Negativists' Club is not contributing much on our quest of answers.

The Negativists' Club,lol. You must have been up all night thinking that one up. So we are negative because we don't buy into you and punshh's ill-informed fantasies? I think not.

 

[dafydd]

If you belong to the Universe and you are conscious about yourself and the Universe then the Universe is conscious of itself. Simple as that.

Remove the urge to stay alive and evolution disappears, so does life.
And you say there is no driving force.
I do not contest your right to your opinions however foolish they might be.

Thank you for letting me feel smart and educated.

Read a lot of Oscar Wilde? The rest of your post is the usual gibberish.

 

[dafydd]

Wow. You want people who do not think like you or who say things you do not understand or agree with either to shut up or go elsewhere.

Are you American?

No. I merely ask for proof of your and punshh's vague assertions. Proof that the universe is conscious of itself,for example. Proof that evolution has a purpose. Random genetic mutations do not have a purpose. I am half Welsh,half Scottish, a Celt. You may not have noticed yet,but this is a public forum.

 

[lemurien]

Read a lot of Oscar Wilde? The rest of your post is the usual gibberish.

I have his Collected Works in my bookshelf and I have read it, yes.
He is a brilliant writer coming from a modest background which was a thing that the petrified snotty Brits could not accept.

I believe you brought him up for his wits rather than for his sexual preferences?

 

[lemurien]

No. I merely ask for proof of your and punshh's vague assertions. Proof that the universe is conscious of itself,for example. Proof that evolution has a purpose. Random genetic mutations do not have a purpose. I am half Welsh,half Scottish, a Celt. You may not have noticed yet,but this is a public forum.

OK, you are forgiven. Jack Bruce is Welsh.

 

[dafydd]

I have his Collected Works in my bookshelf and I have read it, yes.
He is a brilliant writer coming from a modest background which was a thing that the petrified snotty Brits could not accept.

I believe you brought him up for his wits rather than for his sexual preferences?

You didn't learn a lot about wit from Oscar. You don't know much about him. He was the son of Sir William Wilde,a leading surgeon. Regular visitors to the Wilde household included George Petrie, Isaac Butt, William Rowan Hamilton and Samuel Ferguson. Modest background? Where did you get that from? I suggested the David Icke site because they will believe anything you say over there,no questions asked. They just usually agree on how cosmic everything is. We do things differently here. You avoided my questions. Do you have any proof that the universe is conscious of itself and also proof that evolution has a purpose?

 

[dafydd]

OK, you are forgiven. Jack Bruce is Welsh.

Lol, Jack Bruce is Scottish,a Glaswegian born in Bishopbriggs,which is not far from where I was born. Really,you know as much about him and Wilde as you know about cosmology and evolution. When in a hole,stop digging. I saw the Cream twice and had a short chat with Jack Bruce about Glasgow. Come to think of it,I saw Jack Bruce another time in 1965 when he played bass with Manfredd Mann at our local cinema.

 

[lemurien]

Was Oscar Wilde persecuted because he had his affinities or because he had an Irish background?

 

[lemurien]

my bad

 

[lemurien]

I didn't know it was Jack Bruce on Pretty Flamingo.

I have lived with many misunderstandings since I was kid.
I thought that Welsh and Celtic is about the same thing which they are not.

You must be older than me and you still have not realized that there are things you are wrong about, things to learn.

 

[PixyMisa]

No. I merely ask for proof of your and punshh's vague assertions. Proof that the universe is conscious of itself,for example. Proof that evolution has a purpose.

Or at least, some actual evidence.

Note that unsupported assertions are not usually considered to constitute evidence.

 

[tsig]

Yes your point is made and my point remains namely materialism and idealism are aspects of the appearance of existence, the tree. In mystic contemplation the nature of the wood is of concern.

What does a bear do in those woods? What religion is the pope?

 

[tsig]

Well if existence does not have a purpose, its up the creek without a paddle

Truth(as I am using it here) = the actual nature(and significance) of existence.

Due you think that the actual nature of existence is the world as described by materialism?

The actual nature of existence is to be born, to live, to die, your wanting more will not make it so. A baby cries and it's mother comes to change it, your mother isn't here and no one wants to change your nappy.

 

[tsig]

If you belong to the Universe and you are conscious about yourself and the Universe then the Universe is conscious of itself. Simple as that.

Remove the urge to stay alive and evolution disappears, so does life.
And you say there is no driving force.
I do not contest your right to your opinions however foolish they might be.

Thank you for letting me feel smart and educated.

Your opinions are foolish and I'm smart seems to be all you have.

 

[tsig]

I didn't know it was Jack Bruce on Pretty Flamingo.

I have lived with many misunderstandings since I was kid.
I thought that Welsh and Celtic is about the same thing which they are not.

You must be older than me and you still have not realized that there are things you are wrong about, things to learn.

Maybe he's learned them and found them wrong. Have you ever been wrong?

 

[Tricky]

If you belong to the Universe and you are conscious about yourself and the Universe then the Universe is conscious of itself. Simple as that.

No, that is what is known as the Fallacy of Composition. Things do not assume the characteristics of their constituent parts. (e.g. Sodium and Chlorine are both poisonous, but NaCl is just salt.)

 

[dafydd]

I didn't know it was Jack Bruce on Pretty Flamingo.

I have lived with many misunderstandings since I was kid.
I thought that Welsh and Celtic is about the same thing which they are not.

You must be older than me and you still have not realized that there are things you are wrong about, things to learn.

I did used to believe in woo when I was younger. Ley lines,pyramid energy,dowsing,you name it and I believed it. But the more I researched these subjects the more I realized that there was not a shred of evidence to support them. I am still learning but I still have to see evidence that the universe is self conscious. Do you have any evidence of that and also evidence that evolution has a purpose? You are avoiding those questions. Do you ever consider that you may be be wrong about certain things? Never mind about Jack Bruce.

 

[dafydd]

Was Oscar Wilde persecuted because he had his affinities or because he had an Irish background?

You don't know what happened to Oscar Wilde and why it happened? Read a biography or two. That's what I did. It's a good way of finding out about things,reading books. I can recommend it to you.

 

[dafydd]

When I was in my early twenties I was convinced that I could dowse with a pendulum,in particular drawing a card card at random from a pack and dowsing it. Then I got a book from the library about probability theory and started keeping records of my attempts. I quickly found out that my successes were no more than predicted by chance. That started me off questioning things instead of simply just believing them. You say that the universe is conscious. Where is the proof? Campfire stories and new age babble do not count.

 

[lemurien]

I did used to believe in woo when I was younger. Ley lines,pyramid energy,dowsing,you name it and I believed it. But the more I researched these subjects the more I realized that there was not a shred of evidence to support them. I am still learning but I still have to see evidence that the universe is self conscious. Do you have any evidence of that and also evidence that evolution has a purpose? You are avoiding those questions. Do you ever consider that you may be be wrong about certain things? Never mind about Jack Bruce.

1) from where I was spending my youth, Scots and Celtics and Druids and whatever were just exotic foreigners. I had an old memory that was false about Jack Bruce. Actually, it might very well be from the Press at the time when I was young. We had no means of checking out the facts before Internet.

2) I skipped all the New Age crap. I was a very dry materialist in the 70s-80s. I had no understanding whatsoever for crystals or bending spoons or levitation or the third eye. Acupuncture worked because you had selective media and strong guys to hold the patients down when they were operated.
there was no money at that time in Chine to buy drugs so...use what you got.

3) My point of the consciousness in the Universe is that the only instance where it can be observed is the human consciousness. Man is a part of the Universe. He is conscious. Ergo, the universe is conscious.

Again, if we look at the human being and how many aspects of himself his consciousness covers...not much.

Still we say that a human being is conscious.
Now, what would be the criteria for the Universe? To be discussed.

My toe is not conscious of my molar.

Moon is not conscious of Alpha Centauri.

I am conscious my toe, my molar, Alpha Centauri and the Moon.
The Universe in conscious through me, I am the center of the Antropomorphic Universe.

Of course these are just word games, no significance, nothing changed.

To Tsig: My professor told me that every evening going to bed you should bring to mind at least three mistakes you made during the day. If you cannot, start thinking about your retirement plan because you are just about to become dangerous.

As long as I can say 'my bad' I still have hope.
I am consciously watching myself with these very things in my mind.
I have given instructions and key words to be used in the situation where I have to let go.

To Dafydd, I never stated that evolution has a purpose other than what people give it. I just pointed out that the urge to stay alive is one of its driving forces.

About Oscar wilde, I am not sure as I was not born yet. Also, I am not British so the details you have grown up with are not a part of my culturoscape.

I read one thing where he was presented as a victim of the English-Irish conflict. Why was Oscar Wilde attacked, why Alan Turing, but why not Stephen Fry? The only True Brit is Stephen Fry.