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Masturbation and sin

noblecaboose

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noblecaboose
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Messages
686
So, masturbation is supposedly a sin in some religions, right?
The supposed rationale for this is that every sperm cell is a potential life and that the seed should not be wasted in an act of selfish pleasure. Or so I learned in Catholic school. (Okay, they didn't actually cover it in Catholic school, I got it from Monty Python's Meaning of Life, "Every sperm is sacred...".)
A friend of mine who used to be Catholic has been browsing the online catalogs of sperm banks in search of a potential father for her child and it got me wondering, if you are masturbating in order to donate to a sperm bank, is it a sin? I mean, if the intent of masturbation is solely for procreation, how is that sinful? In fact, it seems less sinful than sex with a wife that is not currently at the peak of her menstrual cycle, which is something the Catholic church does advocate (the "rhythm method") as an acceptable form of birth control.
Does anybody know the Catholic (or any other religion in which masturbation in sinful) position on this? Has the Pope ever said anything about it?
 
I believe the catholic church still has masturbation as a sin although I could be wrong. At worst if you went to confession you would have to say a few hail marys. I remember a catholic friend mentioned that once but I could be wrong.
 
Ahem. I have no sperm to spill.

OMFG I finally found an instance where being totally disregarded by the church because I'm a woman has PAID OFF!

This calls for bananas!!

:Banane20: :Banane20: :Banane20:




...and as to the question, I dunno.
 
Yet another argument against intelligent design:

Why does it take so many millions of sperm cells to fertilize one egg? If God values each sperm cell (and potential child!!!) so much, doesn't this way of doing things seem hopelessly wasteful?
 
Cello Man said:
Yet another argument against intelligent design:

Why does it take so many millions of sperm cells to fertilize one egg? If God values each sperm cell (and potential child!!!) so much, doesn't this way of doing things seem hopelessly wasteful?
Click to expand...

But you see non-believer ;) god has a "plan". Those sperm cells are not wasted, their spirits are moved elsewhere when they die; all part of god's great "plan". :p
 
Cello Man said:
Yet another argument against intelligent design:

Why does it take so many millions of sperm cells to fertilize one egg? If God values each sperm cell (and potential child!!!) so much, doesn't this way of doing things seem hopelessly wasteful?
Click to expand...

Well, all those children would be pretty wasteful too....
 
The Catholic church is opposed to sperm donation and indeed to most fertility treatments.
 
slingblade said:
Ahem. I have no sperm to spill.

OMFG I finally found an instance where being totally disregarded by the church because I'm a woman has PAID OFF!

This calls for bananas!!

:Banane20: :Banane20: :Banane20:




...and as to the question, I dunno.
Click to expand...

I'm not an expert on Catholic doctrine, but I'm pretty sure it's a sin when you do it too, slingblade.

Anyway, I think the ultimate rationale is that the Church (and many, if not most, other organized religions) is just opposed to anything that feels good, and masturbation tops that list. There's some bit in the Old Testament somewhere where some guy is commanded by God to impregnate some woman, but at the last minute he "spills his seed on the ground," and is struck down by God. This is generally viewed as the scriptural basis for the anti-masturbation rule, but it always seemed to me to be more a matter of disobeying God's direct order to knock up the girl than anything having to do with masturbation per se. But apparently, drunken sex with one's daughters is fine and dandy, whereas taking matters into one's own hand is not.
 
noblecaboose said:
Really? If that's so, then how do they justify that? And where did you get this information?
Click to expand...

Catholic radio and TV shows? Here's an official looking link though.

http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm

Catholics are against fertility treatments for the same reasons they are against birth control and premarital sex. They believe in sex only in the context of marriage and reproduction. Any interference with this process is forbidden. No sex without reproduction, no reproduction without sex.
 
JamesDillon said:
I'm not an expert on Catholic doctrine, but I'm pretty sure it's a sin when you do it too, slingblade.
Click to expand...

Hee, no, I'm pretty sure some think it's a sin. But shoot!!

:Banane36:



Anyway, I think the ultimate rationale is that the Church (and many, if not most, other organized religions) is just opposed to anything that feels good, and masturbation tops that list. There's some bit in the Old Testament somewhere where some guy is commanded by God to impregnate some woman, but at the last minute he "spills his seed on the ground," and is struck down by God. This is generally viewed as the scriptural basis for the anti-masturbation rule, but it always seemed to me to be more a matter of disobeying God's direct order to knock up the girl than anything having to do with masturbation per se. But apparently, drunken sex with one's daughters is fine and dandy, whereas taking matters into one's own hand is not.
Click to expand...

That would be Mr. Onan. No one ever liked Mr. Onan anyway. He smelled funny.
 
ChristineR said:
Catholic radio and TV shows? Here's an official looking link though.

http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm

Catholics are against fertility treatments for the same reasons they are against birth control and premarital sex. They believe in sex only in the context of marriage and reproduction. Any interference with this process is forbidden. No sex without reproduction, no reproduction without sex.
Click to expand...

If what you say is indeed true, then how can they advocate the "Rhythm Method" (a.k.a 1,001 unwanted babies)?

(ETA) I also find it reeeeally disturbing that this site goes into such detail about what is and isn't allowed.
 
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Cross posting there. Slingblade's article is interesting because it goes into all the tortuous moral justifications they go into, like having intercourse with a perforated condom then scraping the semen out of the condom so that the sperm can be "washed" and inserted into the fallopian tubes. Since that leaves open the possibility that the sperm made it to the ovum without help, some authorities allow it.
 
More cross posting! The rhythm method is allowed because technically it's just making decisions about when you choose to have sex, but does not interfere with the "natural" sex act in any way.

Rhythm methods to encourage conception are allowed. These are about as effective as rhythm methods to discourage conception, but if they fail at least you're no worse off than you were before.
 
I suspect that, when it comes down to it, religion's reasons for vilifying sex has to do with the elimination of competing interests. Why would one imagine that many religions despise women? Women are competition for the focus on the divine. Frankly, humanity is simply better than the divine and religion's purveyor's know this. It's all about polarizing around ridiculous ideas....
 
My wife and I went through IVF a couple of times. I was a practicing Catholic at the time, and very good friends with the priest. He asked about the needles they must have been using to extract sperm. I thought he was being flip, so I responded in a somewhat crude manner about tossing my seed in a little plastic cup. He looked horrified when I told him that. He told me it was a sin to do that. If I wanted to go through the approved procedures, it would involve extracting sperm through a needle.

http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm
 
ksbluesfan said:
My wife and I went through IVF a couple of times. I was a practicing Catholic at the time, and very good friends with the priest. He asked about the needles they must have been using to extract sperm. I thought he was being flip, so I responded in a somewhat crude manner about tossing my seed in a little plastic cup. He looked horrified when I told him that. He told me it was a sin to do that. If I wanted to go through the approved procedures, it would involve extracting sperm through a needle.

http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm
Click to expand...

Soooo... They'd rather collect sperm in a painful way rather than the fun way.

Heh... I know I left the RCC for a damn good reason.
 
Holding masturbation as a sin is a powerful way to control the minds of people. In theory one has a choice to do it or not, but realisticly one cant chose. Biology takes over, and anyone of faith is doomed to guilt and fear of god.
 
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