Martin McGuinness dead

If ya' wonder why Americans are so ignorant about the UK-Irish conflict, it's because we have subject to a reign of disinformation about the entire affair. Let give you and example. In a Time Magazine article dated 28 March 2008, writer Robert Baer says:

On paper at least, the 1998 agreement between the IRA and the British government was what started to put an end to the violent conflict. But at the bottom of it the IRA lost the will to fight.

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1726385,00.html
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When I read that, I said, "Baloney! Who the hell is this Robert Baer fool?"

Well, in about 30 Seconds of searching the web, this is the description I got about Robert Baer:

Robert Booker "Bob" Baer (born July 1, 1952) is an American author and a former CIA case officer who was primarily assigned to the Middle East.[1] He is Time's intelligence columnist[1] and has contributed to Vanity Fair, The Wall Street Journal, and The Washington Post.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Baer
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Gawd in heaven help us all! The press doesn't even try to cover the fact that it is in bed with the intelligence services....and they wonder why people hate them so much. This is the kind of mass-media propaganda that Americans have been fed about everything concerning the "Troubles" - and it's why Americans are so ignorant about Ireland - and anything else that goes on in the world.


Jeesus, reading 30-year-old Pravda and Tass papers was a joy compared to what I've got to read now. At least you knew - and the world knew - that Pravda and Tass were utter propaganda and lies. And the fact was openly acknowledged.

Not today.

It's a shame.
 
He's actually one of the few US spooks who believes that Libya and Gaddafi had nothing to do with Lockerbie, but he does seem a bit kooky to me and even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
 
Giz said:
The ones who are most celebrated were non-violent resistors who changed society by appeal to reason, sympathy/empathy and logic. MLK. Rosa Parks. People who shot random whites are not given sympathetic obituaries.



I agree, Britain has treated Ireland appallingly in the past, and some of that carried over into the treatment of the Nationalist/Catholic minority in Northern Ireland. That doesn't mean that resorting to semtex in lieu of speeches is the most moral course of action... especially as the PIRA were not Batman, hunting down specific wrongdoers, but killed random innocents.
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That's the one that always bothers me and makes me as I am by such as
McGuinness. Note, I loathe the Black and Tans also!!! Hope this helps!!!
 
By the end, the IRA had pretty much morphed into the "Rafia". I suspect that since 9-11 they murdered more Catholics than Protestants and British soldiers combined.

McGuinness and Gerry Adams had better pray there ain't no hell.
 
Brainster said:
By the end, the IRA had pretty much morphed into the "Rafia". I suspect that since 9-11 they murdered more Catholics than Protestants and British soldiers combined.

McGuinness and Gerry Adams had better pray there ain't no hell.
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What?

McGuiness and Adams had nothing to do with the IRA (Continuity IRA or Real IRA) that contunues fighting (or so I've read).
 
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Brainster said:
By the end, the IRA had pretty much morphed into the "Rafia". I suspect that since 9-11 they murdered more Catholics than Protestants and British soldiers combined.

McGuinness and Gerry Adams had better pray there ain't no hell.
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The IRA called off their armed campaign in 1997 but don't let facts get in the way or anything.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Mendela did start the militant wing of the ANC. So it isn't like he had something against a good bombing campaign.
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Exactly, which is why I specifically chose Mandela. A terrorist who embraced democracy and who is semi-deified by their supporters. In Mandela's case "we" decided that his cause was just, his methods justified, his suffering unacceptable and his change of heart complete and genuine. I'm sure that there are a lot of people who feel exactly the same about Martin McGuinness.
 
Strawberry said:
You should know better then. Ask your friend in Ardoyne and he/she will tell you the same as me - the Troubles would have been there with or without Martin McGuinness, the peace process maybe not.
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I can't do that, he is dead.

ETA: And I will thank you very much for not urinating on his grave, his widow and his two sweet kids.
 
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Greebo said:
Don't forget the eleven people who died too
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I haven't. in fact, those soldier's deaths are 1000x times more tragic than seven 97) freakin' horses. But, that's not how people see it...not in the real world. The Hyde park bombings were a warning to the PIRA because of the way people reacted to them. I mean, if someone kills nothing but soldiers or politicians it's tragic, but blow up a bunch of horses and every British female from 6 -to- 66 years-of-age is going to be calling for your liver on a plate.

Hey...the Brits even honored one of the surviving horses with "Horse of the Year" award and his own statue: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-24552921
 
Strawberry said:
The Real IRA is three men and a dog. And at least two of those men are working for Special Branch, not sure about the dog.
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Particularly fun back in the 80s idea - as there was a series of stories in one of the newsstand mystery magazines that had ongoing adventures of two older longtime Brit spies who, by wild coincidence worked with a dog one of them owned. In one of the stories, they arranged for explosives destined to be used in Britain by the IRA to be loaded in or under the car of the IRA agents. It was a lovely sendoff they were later told!!!
 
Jules Galen said:
I haven't. in fact, those soldier's deaths are 1000x times more tragic than seven 97) freakin' horses. But, that's not how people see it...not in the real world. The Hyde park bombings were a warning to the PIRA because of the way people reacted to them. I mean, if someone kills nothing but soldiers or politicians it's tragic, but blow up a bunch of horses and every British female from 6 -to- 66 years-of-age is going to be calling for your liver on a plate.

Hey...the Brits even honored one of the surviving horses with "Horse of the Year" award and his own statue: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-24552921
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Do you have a story about a horse, perhaps that occurred on your farm? If so I'm slavering at the mouth to hear it.
 
Giz said:
The ones who are most celebrated were non-violent resistors who changed society by appeal to reason, sympathy/empathy and logic.
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Hrm. I'm looking at the various denominations of US currency in my wallet, and I don't see a lot of "non-violent resistors" on them.
 
Cleon said:
Hrm. I'm looking at the various denominations of US currency in my wallet, and I don't see a lot of "non-violent resistors" on them.
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False equivalence is false. Thanks for playing logical fallacy!
 
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