Marriage between first cousins

Luciana said:
According to ddt, the prohibition doesn't exist in the Netherlands.
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SkeptiChick said:
I apologize for my statement about the Netherlands -- I read a quote which said it was no longer prosecuted there and thought that meant that it was still technically illegal, just not enforced. I cannot find the law itself, as I don't speak the language.
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Do you have a link to that quote?

The Dutch Civil Code is online here (hope this link keeps working).

If you want, I can quote the relevant articles plus translation; they're quite easy.

I got curious about past changes in the law. This recent article from a leading Dutch paper mentions a recent paper of Diane Paul and Hamish Spencer in an internet periodical "PLoS Biology", who argue there is no scientific basis for a ban on cousin-cousin marriages.

This article claims the current Dutch law has been introduced in 1970, in the first part of the complete reworking of the Dutch Civil Code. Before that, marriages were banned between relatives up to the 3rd degree - so parent/child, grandparent/grandchild or even great-grandparent/great-grandchild, siblings, and nephew/aunt or niece/uncle . But not cousin-cousin. There was the possibility for dispensation; a famous case was Anton Mussert, the leader of the Dutch Nazi party who married his aunt.

Finally, this article claims that a ban on cousin-cousin marriages in the Netherlands had been lifted in 1580. It also mentions that the previous Dutch Health Minister had considered a ban on cousin-cousin marriages - the number is increasing among Turkish and Moroccan immigrants - but had not done so after advice from the medical world.

ETA: sorry all links are in Dutch. I can translate relevant parts if you're interested.
 
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WildCat said:
In most of Europe you can even marry your sister/brother.

Lots of creepy people in Europe.

Even zoos don't mate animal siblings.
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really? didnt know that, which countrys are those? thats sick.
 
It is far from sick. If people love each other genuinely, be it a sister and a brother, two first cousins, the state should not interfere. Not like it is a particularly prevalent phenomenon.

What dazzles me is the need to get married, though. But that goes for any partnership.
 
ErikTheRed said:
It is far from sick. If people love each other genuinely, be it a sister and a brother, two first cousins, the state should not interfere. Not like it is a particularly prevalent phenomenon.

What dazzles me is the need to get married, though. But that goes for any partnership.
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so for you Inzest is OK?
i think it is sick.
 
Dictator Cheney said:
really? didnt know that, which countrys are those? thats sick.
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From the print media:
But while incest is one of the few remaining sexual taboos, in legal terms, at least, Europe remains divided. France's incest laws were abolished in 1810 by Napoleon. It is also not illegal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Portugal or Turkey.
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And in Sweden brother/sister can even marry. Note that is not a complete list. The only countries in Europe where I know incest is illegal is Germany, Finland, and "Britain".

The lawyer for the German brother/sister couple in the story said in the CNN story that it is legal in most of Europe, I have no reason to doubt that.
 
WildCat said:
From the print media:

And in Sweden brother/sister can even marry. Note that is not a complete list. The only countries in Europe where I know incest is illegal is Germany, Finland, and "Britain".

The lawyer for the German brother/sister couple in the story said in the CNN story that it is legal in most of Europe, I have no reason to doubt that.
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WildCat said:
From the print media:

And in Sweden brother/sister can even marry. Note that is not a complete list. The only countries in Europe where I know incest is illegal is Germany, Finland, and "Britain".

The lawyer for the German brother/sister couple in the story said in the CNN story that it is legal in most of Europe, I have no reason to doubt that.
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Sweden is the only country in Europe which allows marriage between siblings who share only one parent.[17] However, permission for this must be acquired from the County Administrative Board.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest#cite_note-16

i think either you or the lawyer is misstaken.
while it is a sad trueth that alot countrys do not punish inzest, you cannot marry your brother or sister.
 
ErikTheRed said:
Where did I write I was a proponent for incest? Marriage != children.
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ah sorry then.

mmh i still think its wrong.
would they be allowed to have sex? but not allowed to have children?
or where is the line?
 
The line? If two siblings decide to have sex, and said sex results in a child, should they be incarcerated? Because it is impossible to enforce.
 
Dictator Cheney said:
mmhh jailing one of the parents , why not?
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If it were consensual, you would have to incarcerate both in that case. Also, the resultant child could be "okay" even if it was conceived through incest. I can not find any arguments that could justify this being illegal apart from social stigma and the
possibility of harmful genetic defects. I would hate to be that child, though. It is a difficult question.
 
ErikTheRed said:
If it were consensual, you would have to incarcerate both in that case. Also, the resultant child could be "okay" even if it was conceived through incest. I can not find any arguments that could justify this being illegal apart from social stigma and the
possibility of harmful genetic defects. I would hate to be that child, though. It is a difficult question.
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good point.
i didnt find any arguments neither :)
its just my oppinion that it is sick. as i didnt even take a look at how big the chances of genetic defects are, for me its the social stigma, i guess.
 
Yes, I do not approve of it either, but that is not reason enough to illegalize it. Earlier in history it has been commonplace, so it appears to be a partly cultural thing.
 
"On January 1, 2009, Norway will become the sixth country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage." :)

If I were gay I do not think I would even want to engage in said holy union, however.
 
"On January 1, 2009, Norway will become the sixth country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage." :)

If I were gay I do not think I would even want to engage in said holy union, however. Maybe to take the piss on dogmatic Christians ;)
 
I rarely ever post but this thread is driving me nuts. As stated many times marriage does not equal children. In fact I'm married and had a vasectomy at 26. We did it for the gifts and the party and the fact calling your spouse "the wife" or "my deadbeat husband" is hilarious and fun. I think that people who feel that a ban on marriage because family relation (cousin, sibling) are just as bigoted as anti-gay marriage proponents.

I was just wondering how any of the posters who use the genetic reasoning to support their stance on the issue would handle the situation if they found out they were the offspring of an incestual encounter. Would you opt for sterilization for yourself and children? How many have even checked? Hmm, I think I need to call my mom...
 
I rarely ever post but this thread is driving me nuts. As stated many times marriage does not equal children. In fact I'm married and had a vasectomy at 26. We did it for the gifts and the party and the fact calling your spouse "the wife" or "my deadbeat husband" is hilarious and fun. I think that people who feel that a ban on marriage because family relation (cousin, sibling) are just as bigoted as anti-gay marriage proponents.

I was just wondering how any of the posters who use the genetic reasoning to support their stance on the issue would handle the situation if they found out they were the offspring of an incestual encounter. Would you opt for sterilization for yourself and children? How many have even checked? Hmm, I think I need to call my mom...
 
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