• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

"Marketplace of Ideas"?

No but there are elected officials who represent those who elected them. When the shoe's on the other foot, or when the people at the top are out of control, they have an aparatus to shut you up.

They always have that. There's already law enforcement and the military, the security forces, that are more or less under their control.

So my question is: how do you prevent that? You've already given them the tools to determine what constitutes bad speech and to stop it.

Why stop at that? They've already been given the guns, ammunition and training which they can use to kill me. In principle there's nothing preventing the police from storming my apartment and shooting me to death at any moment, for any or no reason at all.

Of course we cannot prevent psychotic police officers from doing something like that with absolute certainty, anymore than we can principally prevent the entire state bureaucracy becoming stricken by a collective psychosis. The same thing applies to some rogue agent acting on behalf of the political leadership of this country.

But there are plenty of things we can do to lessen to odds of that happening, or at least limit the impact should such things occur.

Ok then, who decides what the foundations of liberal-democracy are? Face it: a sizeable chunk of the country has a very different idea of what those are.

There are plenty of different preconditions for a genuine and well-functioning liberal-democracy to exist. There's a reason why simply having democratic elections rarely if ever turns a country that has been under a authoritarian system for hundreds of years into a liberal-democracy.

Above all else is the simple fact that enough people can't just accept or tolerate the status quo, they have to actually believe in and defend it. That's why winning over the hearts and minds of people is so crucial. They have to be willing to up with hardship and not simply seek refugee in the empty promises of authoritarian demagogues or totalitarian extremists.

What if they find that, for instance, MSNBC regularily broadcasts erroneous information or undermines government functions by constantly nay-saying the President?

I find it very strange that you seem to completely miss the point. It's exactly this kind of thing that I'm trying to prevent!

It's almost certainly too late to stop them with the usual constitution means when they begin to prevent any criticism. That's the point where liberal-democracy has given way to authoritarianism. That's why we have to act preemptively before its too late.
 
Last edited:
That's a good point.

They're really not.

I'm pretty sure if you ask any biologists they'll tell you that Neanderthals are, in fact, extinct.

For instance, he's the first sentence of the wikipedia entry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
Neanderthals (UK: /niˈændərˌtɑːl/, also US: /neɪ-, -ˈɑːn-, -ˌtɔːl, -ˌθɔːl/;[4] Homo neanderthalensis or Homo sapiens neanderthalensis)[5] are an extinct species or subspecies of archaic humans in the genus Homo, who lived within Eurasia from circa 400,000 until 40,000 years ago.
 
I'm pretty sure if you ask any biologists they'll tell you that Neanderthals are, in fact, extinct.
We also have people here on ISF who say that dinosaurs are not extinct. They point at birds and say that those are dinosaurs.
 
I get that, but who gets to decide, and how do we ensure that the next administration doesn't decide that _my_ speech and attempts to implement my ideas are not against the common good?



So that's first. Second, how about a guy like Alex Jones? Do you jail him for his nonsense?
Why not continue to use the same process you've been using for centuries?
 
Mother: "Oh no! My son has been bitten by a poisonous snake! I need help! Somebody help me!"
Technically-Correct Man: "I'll help you citizens! You see technically your son wasn't bitten by a poisonous snake. Poisonous means that it's dangerous if you ingest it. Your son was bitten by a venomous snake."
Mother: "Thank you Technically-Correct Man!"
Technically-Correct Man: "My work here is done!" *Flies off*
Son: *Dies*
 
We also have people here on ISF who say that dinosaurs are not extinct. They point at birds and say that those are dinosaurs.

Sure, but we are correct about that, whereas Neanderthals are extinct. The issue here is that "dinosaurs" aren't a species. As I understand it, ancestral species are still considered to be extinct even if their progeny remains extant, because it's a different species.

But dinosaurs are a class, and that clade has living examples today, so, yes, birds are dinosaurs. The majority of dinosaur species did go extinct at the K/T event, though.
 
Mother: "Oh no! My son has been bitten by a poisonous snake! I need help! Somebody help me!"
Technically-Correct Man: "I'll help you citizens! You see technically your son wasn't bitten by a poisonous snake. Poisonous means that it's dangerous if you ingest it. Your son was bitten by a venomous snake."
Mother: "Thank you Technically-Correct Man!"
Technically-Correct Man: "My work here is done!" *Flies off*
Son: *Dies*

Clearly her son thought the snake was merely poisonous, which is why he was handling it in such a way that he got bitten. If only Technically-Correct-Man had arrived on the scene sooner, this tragedy could have been averted!
 
They always have that. There's already law enforcement and the military, the security forces, that are more or less under their control.

Yeah but they don't have the ability to downright call your speech unacceptable at a drop of a hat, regardless of what you actually say, do they?

There are plenty of different preconditions for a genuine and well-functioning liberal-democracy to exist.

I agree with you. But the fact is that many will disagree on what constitutes a threat to it. Actions are easier to get into this set than words.
 
We also have people here on ISF who say that dinosaurs are not extinct. They point at birds and say that those are dinosaurs.

And I have seen people referring to non-avian dinosaurs in material for popular consumption. It becomes an interesting point of view, as they are certainly descended and physiologically similar to some varieties of dinosaurs more than those dinosaurs are to other dinosaurs.

You have the Saurischia which includes the Theropoda(which birds are descended from) and the Sauropodomorpha , then there are the Ornithischia. So dinosaurs as a grouping are more diverse from each other than birds are from them.

It would be similar to arguing if all mammals but bats went extinct that bats were not mammals.
 
Yeah but they don't have the ability to downright call your speech unacceptable at a drop of a hat, regardless of what you actually say, do they?

Of course they can. It's not as if their tongue would shrivel up and fall out of their mouth if they tried to say that now is it?

What's important is if others are willing to believe in them, ignore the law and follow their orders. Laws, regulations, constitutions and so forth don't mean a god damn thing if people don't believe in them.

I agree with you. But the fact is that many will disagree on what constitutes a threat to it. Actions are easier to get into this set than words.

Of course there's no need to suppress every single religious and political extremist or crazy crackpot out there. That doesn't mean we should get careless and assume that people will always "do the right thing".
 
And clearly all extinct groupings of mammals are now no longer mammals either.
They aren't their ancestors. Their ancestors have been given a name. Don't call them the name of their ancestors because they aren't their ancestors.

Humans are primates, but we aren't proto-primates. Those are extinct.
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom