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Make Friends with Iran

Bill Thompson

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I thought I would start a thread with this simple idea. I think it is obvious we need to make friends with Iran.

Obama went to Cairo to give a speech filled with a lot of half-truths about Islam. So I am sure he would not have a problem going to Tehran and give a speech filled with a lot of painful truths about the historic blunders the USA has made with Iran.

Sure, now days there seem to be two Irans. One friendly to us and one hostile to us. I am not saying we stab the friendlies in the back. We can make friends with both... or at least try.

Making friends with the dark side of Iran has lots of benefits. One obvious benefit is we could show them seriously that we have no desire to invade their country. I am sure they must fear this because we seem to be making an Iranian sandwitch geographically with Afghanistan now. I am sure this is supplying the Taliban with roadside bombs.
 
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I agree- but unfortunately the idea of making nice with Tehran is politically unpalatable to hardliners on both sides.

Robert Baer proposed in his book The Devil We Know that while we couldn't restore good relations with Iran overnight, we could start with both sides agreeing to make small, verifiable steps in good faith. Iran could withdraw its support for Hamas and insurgent Shia groups within Iraq, and we could agree not to meddle in its internal affairs.

Iran's power in the region has been on the rise, and our chosen allies the Saudis have less and less influence. We will have to deal with Iran sooner or later, and it's much better if its on our timeline than theirs.
 
The problem is I don't think that Iran is going to withdraw it's support form Hamas and the Shia insurgents anytime soon.
Baer is driven by a understandable distaste for the Saudi Regime to the other extreme.
 
Obama needs to pull a Reagan.

When Reagan was told that an idea he had was unpopular he would respond that he needed to educate the American people.
 
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ravdin said:
Godwined in post #5. I believe this might be a new record!
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It depends on what you think Iran is aiming at. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I think they are going for all the marbles..total dominance of the Mideast, and I doubt they will change anytime soon.
 
dudalb said:
It depends on what you think Iran is aiming at. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I think they are going for all the marbles..total dominance of the Mideast, and I doubt they will change anytime soon.
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I don't disagree. Of course, we gave them a bit of help by removing their archenemy Saddam Hussein....

More to the point- since their power is on the rise, it means we will have to deal with them. As abhorrent is I find the thugs who have seized control of the country, I'd rather talk to them now than later- before, say, they have developed nuclear weapons or Israel has launched a preemptive strike and triggered an all out war in the region.

As bad as they are, they're less hateful and repressive than the Saudis, who we've somehow managed to work with to our mutual advantage. We'll have to sit down and talk to them sooner or later, and I don't think we're doing ourselves any favors by delaying the inevitable.
 
The question is that Iran seems to me more militant in it's aims then Saudi Arabia.
I am not opposed to talking to them, I just don't think it is going to be fruitful.
 
Iran has refused every deal that has been proposed to them.

How exactly do you envision making friends with people who obviously don't want to, Bill?

Bill Thompson said:
Sure, now days there seem to be two Irans. One friendly to us and one hostile to us.
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Not true. Both hate the US, but one is slightly less irrational about it.
 
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Pardalis said:
Not true. Both hate the US, but one is slightly less irrational about it.
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The Daily Show sent one of their correspondents to Iran right before the last, um, sham I won't call an "election". He talked to a lot of people on the street who speak excellent English, like our music, know more about the US than most Americans seem to, and even watch the Daily Show! Here's the first installment.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-17-2009/jason-jones--behind-the-veil---minarets-of-menace

On a sorrier note- some of the people who were interviewed by Jason Jones were rounded up by the government later (fascists everywhere lack a sense of humor).
 
Why would Iran, or any other country (say N. Korea) care to hear our rhetoric about (them)not having nukes, when we can determine we can have thousands of them, and they cannot have ONE? Why WOULD they want to listen to anything we propose?
 
Bill Thompson said:
Sure, now days there seem to be two Irans.
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Two? I'd say there are at least twelve Irans. Their biggest problem is that absolutely nobody is in charge over there. The President, the Mullahs, the military, the local militias, the business leaders, the remains of the secret police, and about six other groups are all sharing the power that usually rests in one central government.

The reason we didn't negotiate with Iran back in 1979 was that there was nobody to negotiate with who could actually guarantee bringing the hostage crisis to an end. And nothing there has changed.

Appeasing one faction or the other (and the government is just another faction) is not going to work. The second any of them cooperate with us in the slightest, the other factions will tear them to shreds.
 
ravdin said:
The Daily Show sent one of their correspondents to Iran right before the last, um, sham I won't call an "election". He talked to a lot of people on the street who speak excellent English, like our music, know more about the US than most Americans seem to, and even watch the Daily Show! Here's the first installment.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-17-2009/jason-jones--behind-the-veil---minarets-of-menace

On a sorrier note- some of the people who were interviewed by Jason Jones were rounded up by the government later (fascists everywhere lack a sense of humor).
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Utica. :D

That was the best Daily Show series ever.
 
Bill Thompson said:
I think it is obvious we need to make friends with Iran.
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You should perhaps start with figuring out what it would mean to be friends with Iran, because you don't seem to have a clue. Iran is hostile to us because their interests are at odds with ours. Speeches cannot and will not change that. A democratic revolt in Iran might do the trick, but the mullahs will never, in fact can never, be our friends, no matter how nice we try to be.
 
Captain.Sassy said:
What are the interests that you see being in contention here? Not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious.
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To begin with, the mullahs have an expansionist authoritarian religious ideology which is at odds with almost the entire world. Their only real allies are Syria (a Shia minority-ruled dictatorship) and Hezbollah (Shia terrorists). Every other "ally" is only an ally because of shared enemies (Venezuela, for example). Western liberal democracy is viewed as intrinsically threatening to them because it seduces Iranian youths who want to emulate permissive western behavior.

But more immediately, Iran has an interest in acquiring nuclear weapons, they are hostile to our ally Israel (a hostility entirely initiated by themselves), and they have an interest in encouraging regional instability. Such instability helps prop up oil prices, which they want as high as possible, while we want oil prices as low as possible.
 
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