Magically Healing Steel Columns

I'm not sure why this post by TS1234 required an entirely new thread, but in any case please allow me to remind everyone again:

I have not apologized to Truthseeker1234. I am not apologizing. I never will apologize. If I had the time and energy, I would post each and every one of my comments here as though I were reasserting them anew.

And yet, TS1234 does not keep his word. He proves to us all how little the truth matters to a so-called "truth" seeker.
 
One thing to keep in mind, and I notice most "trooth seekers" miss, is that the most solid pieces of the aircraft are on the wings. The engines and the fuel tanks (with fuel in them). The misconception is very clear in any CT analysis of the Pentagon. You are not going to get a big round hole with two long thin holes spreading out to the sides. Also, the angle of the aircraft has to be taken into consideration. It doesn't look like it's coming in at a 90 degree angle to the building.

Is this another post and run?
 
Why would you post something like that? What is your point? This kind of trash should just be deleted. I am sick of twoofers pointing our ridiculous things as if they are proof of a conspiracy. Present a conclusion please.
 
I don't think I've ever seen Occam's Razor so expertly and simply applied to thoroughly debunk ever CT plane-related theory at once in a single succinct post.

Bravo sir!

-Gumboot


Why thank you sir.


I'm still unclear which version of events TS1234 feels is suggested by his evidence. Do you know?

Personally, I can't dismiss every aspect of the conspiracy theorist claims. Having read the northwood documents and considered the surrounding analysis of CIA Al Qaeda links, I take seriously the possibility that the Bush administration is at best incompetent, possibly complicit and maybe even the driving force behind the September 11th attacks.

It's a cautiously couched conspiracy theory of sorts. Since nobody has even conclusively proved that Hitler was responsible for the analogous events of the Reichstag fire I doubt that the truth will ever be known. However those who would make similar accusations to these, will inevitably be drowned out by idiots "agreeing with them" in the most idiotic fashion that besmirches the whole question.

Yes it's quite possible that Neocon's staged the whole thing. The theory is credible if disturbing. If so I can see no good reason for them to break away from established patterns. All they had to do was simply fund/inspire and turn a blind eye to a terrorist operation that simply involved a basic hijacking and suicide attack. Why assume anything more. Why try to prove anything if the evidence is not conclusive.

As I understand it the evidence for the turning a blind eye is circumstantial but solid. It's not much discussed because most of the people presenting the ideas are easily discredited by association with crackpot theories such as controlled demolition, missiles, no planes, Illuminati, NWO blah blah blah.

At the very least intelligence officials should be taken to task for allowing their observations of Islamic groups to lapse to such an extent. As I understand it only 3 Arabic speaking CIA analysts were employed on the Middle East section. If I were an American I be baying for CIA blood. They were clearly caught napping. I also understand that the orders to reduce funding in this area came straight from the top. Clear evidence of incompetence to lead your brave nation. Many decisions since then are so clearly illogical that the mind boggles and strains to find some hidden motive that makes this clearer. As such, a long term strategy to manufacture a post cold war enemy in the middle east to justify military spending or secure control of oil fields during the impending peak oil crisis, seems to fit the bill.

There even appears to be documents and witness testimony to suggest that if events were not planned to these ends they were misappropriated to support that purpose. CIA documents that clearly contradict the clear message coming from the Oval office that Iraq posed a WMD threat or that Iraq gave safe haven to terrorists.

However if all that can be proved is incompetence rather than war crimes then that should be enough to remove this dangerous hand from the trigger of the most dangerous weapon known to history: the USA military.

If there is a conspiracy then people like truth seeker are complicit in conflating something very simple into a bizarre and unbelievable theory. It is their easily discredited woo that would most likely be traced back to disinfo agents working for the conspiracy. If Truth Seeker is truly convinced of the existence of a conspiracy my recommendation is for him to narrow his focus to the core of evidence that show the administration to have behaved irrationally around these events rather than to risk becoming a pawn to the conspiracy.

 
Too bad the CNN frames had low resolution, low frames per second, and blurring from the camera pan. Otherwise, NIST would have had a lot more information to work with, and there would be no such creature as a No Planer.

High resolution, high frames per second, and a clear, static camera angle result in high data saturation and spectacular visuals:

 
Personally, I can't dismiss every aspect of the conspiracy theorist claims. Having read the northwood documents and considered the surrounding analysis of CIA Al Qaeda links, I take seriously the possibility that the Bush administration is at best incompetent, possibly complicit and maybe even the driving force behind the September 11th attacks.

It's a cautiously couched conspiracy theory of sorts. Since nobody has even conclusively proved that Hitler was responsible for the analogous events of the Reichstag fire I doubt that the truth will ever be known. However those who would make similar accusations to these, will inevitably be drowned out by idiots "agreeing with them" in the most idiotic fashion that besmirches the whole question.

Yes it's quite possible that Neocon's staged the whole thing. The theory is credible if disturbing. If so I can see no good reason for them to break away from established patterns. All they had to do was simply fund/inspire and turn a blind eye to a terrorist operation that simply involved a basic hijacking and suicide attack. Why assume anything more. Why try to prove anything if the evidence is not conclusive.

As I understand it the evidence for the turning a blind eye is circumstantial but solid. It's not much discussed because most of the people presenting the ideas are easily discredited by association with crackpot theories such as controlled demolition, missiles, no planes, Illuminati, NWO blah blah blah.

At the very least intelligence officials should be taken to task for allowing their observations of Islamic groups to lapse to such an extent. As I understand it only 3 Arabic speaking CIA analysts were employed on the Middle East section. If I were an American I be baying for CIA blood. They were clearly caught napping. I also understand that the orders to reduce funding in this area came straight from the top. Clear evidence of incompetence to lead your brave nation. Many decisions since then are so clearly illogical that the mind boggles and strains to find some hidden motive that makes this clearer. As such, a long term strategy to manufacture a post cold war enemy in the middle east to justify military spending or secure control of oil fields during the impending peak oil crisis, seems to fit the bill.

There even appears to be documents and witness testimony to suggest that if events were not planned to these ends they were misappropriated to support that purpose. CIA documents that clearly contradict the clear message coming from the Oval office that Iraq posed a WMD threat or that Iraq gave safe haven to terrorists.

However if all that can be proved is incompetence rather than war crimes then that should be enough to remove this dangerous hand from the trigger of the most dangerous weapon known to history: the USA military.

If there is a conspiracy then people like truth seeker are complicit in conflating something very simple into a bizarre and unbelievable theory. It is their easily discredited woo that would most likely be traced back to disinfo agents working for the conspiracy. If Truth Seeker is truly convinced of the existence of a conspiracy my recommendation is for him to narrow his focus to the core of evidence that show the administration to have behaved irrationally around these events rather than to risk becoming a pawn to the conspiracy.

Although I categorically reject MIHOP or LIHOP in favor of simply an incompetent administration getting caught with their pants down (IAGCWTPD?), I do think that MIHOP or LIHOP are the ONLY two theories even worth pursuing; all this other crap just makes them look like idiots.
 
Those on the left side of the plane could clearly see that the plane was going to hit the tower due to the banking of the plane.


Indeed.

I had the awful feeling that might be the case. I just wanted to be wrong. I don't understand how you can watch even those few short frames and think about anything other than the horror those poor people must have felt.

I don't understand what point the OP is supposed to be making with this footage, and somehow, the vagueness just makes it all the more ghoulish.
 
Ok, I watch the grainy video that T1234 posts and if one looks hard you can still discern the area of impact throughout the whole 9 frames.

There is no 'explosion' per se. there is an good deal of material being shoved away from the area of impact and that is hardly surprising.

More seems to come from the location of the engines but this is either because the engine cowling is disintegrating and/or due to ingested material (aluminum cladding, pieces of the cowling)being ejected through the engines.

The actual 'explosion' comes after these 9 frames when the fuel load ignites.

The 'faked planes' people constitute some of the looniest of the CT crowd. There is no way to fake a plane going into a building without actually ramming a plane into a building when there are thousands of spectators with cameras about. In the case of the plane into WTC 2 people in the area are 'primed'. They have one building that has already been hit which was witnessed by perhaps a hundred people who looked up at the sound of the plane going by, a building burning, people jumping to their deaths, and those people with video cameras would be likely to already have their camaeras pointed at WTC 1. Then comes the sound of another low, fast jet coming in and it heads for the building right next to the one already burning. Now you have thousands of witnesses including police officers, firemen and most of the world's press core who happen to be stationed in NYC.

T1234's attempt to show that the whole thing is an illusion using a highly compressed and grainy image speaks to the desperation of the 'no planes' crowd.

Healing columns my ash.
truthseeker1234 and killtown, two peas in a pod.
 
This kind of trash should just be deleted. I am sick of twoofers pointing our ridiculous things as if they are proof of a conspiracy. Present a conclusion please.

I understand how you feel but I think that it's important for fense-sitters who might be reading these posts see what the "truth" movement is all about.

Any reasonable person who has questions about 9/11 will go running for the hills when they read this kind of "truth".
 
I understand how you feel but I think that it's important for fense-sitters who might be reading these posts see what the "truth" movement is all about.

Any reasonable person who has questions about 9/11 will go running for the hills when they read this kind of "truth".

If I just showed up here, and didn't know any better, I would think all of the "good" evidence posted by Truthers was being deleted and that only the silly threads were left to make them look bad. I know that's not true because I'm here pretty often and that wouldn't be in the spirit of JREF.

But I'd be stunned that the movement could have started at all with the quality of evidence that gets posted here. So much of it is so silly as to look like parody. I understand why some Truthers say the no-planers are government plants sent to make them look bad... but then those guys show their own evidence and it's just as silly.
 
Too bad the CNN frames had low resolution, low frames per second, and blurring from the camera pan. Otherwise, NIST would have had a lot more information to work with, and there would be no such creature as a No Planer.


I would be very suspect if there was someone in New York with a 16mm or 35mm film camera, pointed at the WTC, rolling at 50fps+, just as the aircraft hit.

In fact, that's so highly unlikely, it'd probably convince me of a wider conspiracy.

-Gumboot
 
TS1234. and the missing grey matter

When I saw his picture with sloping forehead and narrow set eyes. It became clear to me the mentality we were dealing with.
 
If the High Defintion television revolution had hit 5 or six years ago, do you think we'd still have a lot of this video BS?
 
If the High Defintion television revolution had hit 5 or six years ago, do you think we'd still have a lot of this video BS?


Yes.

Firstly, I doubt news gatherers will ever use high-end HD cameras. More likely they will go for compact HDV cameras, which, although HD, have very high compression rates.

Secondly, Truthers aren't using actual original footage. They're using highly compressed video uploaded to sites like YouTube. The rate of compression in these online videos is so great that it becomes irrelevant what the quality of the original footage was. It could have been recorded on Panaflex's Genesis, or Arriflex's D20, and it would still look like garbage on YouTube.

Lastly, Truthers still make claims about videos even when it is blatantly clear from the video that what they are saying is false. I don't expect this to change.

-Gumboot
 
You blind, deluded fools.

You are all ignoring the squirrels!

Where did the acorn in the ashtray in the South Tower Restaurant come from, eh?

Who gnawed the insulation from the ethernet cables on floor 32? Tell me that!

Hah! You won't be laughing when they come chewing through your wall with their big teeth going "Tsk-Tsk-Tsk!"
 
Man, my speech, writing, spulling, and everything has GONE OUT THE WINDOW. I have caught 'dumb' from this thread. Help.
 
If I just showed up here, and didn't know any better, I would think all of the "good" evidence posted by Truthers was being deleted and that only the silly threads were left to make them look bad. I know that's not true because I'm here pretty often and that wouldn't be in the spirit of JREF.

But I'd be stunned that the movement could have started at all with the quality of evidence that gets posted here. So much of it is so silly as to look like parody. I understand why some Truthers say the no-planers are government plants sent to make them look bad... but then those guys show their own evidence and it's just as silly.

Ah, but we're even more clever than that. We are also keep quality evidence from showing up on troofer sites, so that they, too, are so silly as to look like parody.
 
Yes.
Secondly, Truthers aren't using actual original footage. They're using highly compressed video uploaded to sites like YouTube. The rate of compression in these online videos is so great that it becomes irrelevant what the quality of the original footage was. It could have been recorded on Panaflex's Genesis, or Arriflex's D20, and it would still look like garbage on YouTube.
exactly, and not only is the compression pretty big on youtube, they are probably uploading aleady compressed videos

for those old enough to remember the days before mp3 and dvd, imagine taking a cassette tape or VHS and making a copy, then make a copy of the copy, and a copy of that copy, then do it 10 more times, does it look or sound anything like the original? or has the quality degraded to the point where its pretty much worthless?

ETA: i dont know about c-raider but im pretty drunk right now (planning on calling off work tomorrow due to snow) so i didnt even notice his typo until gumboot pointed it out, lol

(and im double checking the spelling in this post)
 
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