Ed Madeleine McCann Mystery

[IamFreeCanIGo]

I don't really know what you mean here, are you asking me to provide evidence?
If so of what, that the other members of the party had children and that they were attending to them?
If so I think that's on the official record, they've all signed statements to that effect, in addition I think the staff at the tapas bar have all made statements supporting this version of events.

Think all the tapas bar staff said was that people were coming and going and they couldn't tell who was or wasnt there at any given time. I think it was in response to a line of questioning from the PJ trying to see if the McCanns were absent for any length of time to see if they could dispose of the body.

 

[erwinl]

From who? I've never once stated that me viewing them as suspicious as evidence for guilt in disposing of her body. I do dislike them for leaving their kids unattended at night in an unlocked apartment while they went off drinking.

Whats kind of annoying is how me talking about how their stories changed from the door being locked to being opened which there is evidence for, as you can view their hand written timeline submitted to the PJ, is dismissed as well they were in shock they could have been mistaken because they were worried about their daughter.

However when someone comes in and says, I think they are innocent, because a marriage couldn't survive that if they are lying. No one has a problem with it.

Why do people have such a problem with viewing their behavior as suspicious? We are all entitled to our opinion, ive stated my opinion for finding them suspicious you might not agree, fine. However its not an argument from ignorance because you don't happen to agree with my point of view.

Do you think the McCanns an accessory in the disappearing of Madeleine?
I'm asking because I'm not entirely sure what your position in this is.

 

[lionking]

Why do people have such a problem with viewing their behavior as suspicious? We are all entitled to our opinion, ive stated my opinion for finding them suspicious you might not agree, fine. However its not an argument from ignorance because you don't happen to agree with my point of view.

What does this even mean?

Sorry, your suspicions are well and truly trumped by the findings of many experienced, professional police investigators.

I'm sticking with argument from ignorance, or incredulity if you rather (no real difference).

 

[Skepticemea]

Anecdotal, granted, but I do encounter a great many advocates of the "they were asking for it" theory.

Were the McCann's negligent? Arguably, but imo, yes. Are they responsible for the disappearance of their daughter? According to the police investigations to date, no.

 

[IamFreeCanIGo]

Do you think the McCanns an accessory in the disappearing of Madeleine?
I'm asking because I'm not entirely sure what your position in this is.

I don't know. Some things are definitely red flags. Refual of kate to answer any questions in the interview. The fact as admitted by kate and Gerry in their interviews, that she often woke up during the night. They even had a reward chart for her at home, where she got stars for not getting up at night.

Now if your holiday plan is for your kids to sleep while you go out drinking, and you have a child that often wakes up, and was heard crying for an hour a couple of nights earlier asking for Mummy and Daddy, until the mccanns returned after 10pm. Considering that as doctors they had access to sedatives, then its possible they could have sedated her.

When kate found her missing. She was heard shouting "We let her down", when asked about this in her interview she refused to answer what she ment when she said it. Again, its a strange thing to shout.

The time lines are a bit strange too. Jane Tanner saw the man carrying a girl at 9:15, however someone was checking on the kids in the McCanns appartment at 9:05. He claims he listened at the kids bedroom which was ajar and didn't hear anything so assumed all was well. Thats a lucky child abductor because he must have been in the apartment at that time.

Saying that, there is evidence to say she was abducted, someone had gotten into the bedroom window of the apartment above the mccanns a week earlier and was chased off. There are reports of a man looking through the mccanns window from people not associated with the mccanns.

So i don't know, but its an interesting case for sure. I just hope we find out either way.

 

[IamFreeCanIGo]

What does this even mean?

Sorry, your suspicions are well and truly trumped by the findings of many experienced, professional police investigators.

I'm sticking with argument from ignorance, or incredulity if you rather (no real difference).

What part of the experienced, professional police investigators making them suspects and the head detective writing a book saying he thinks they disposed of her body after an accident, trumps my suspicions of them doing some suspicious things?

 

[lionking]

Were the McCann's negligent?

With the wisdom of hindsight, yes. I'm sure many, if not most, parents have left their children for 10 minutes while they went to a corner shop, and the consequences could have been grave, but condemning them across the board is pointless in my opinion. I remember leaving our first born asleep in a motel room while we had dinner about 20 meters away, while we took turns checking on him. Some might consider us irresponsible parents. They'd be wrong.

 

[IamFreeCanIGo]

With the wisdom of hindsight, yes. I'm sure many, if not most, parents have left their children for 10 minutes while they went to a corner shop, and the consequences could have been grave, but condemning them across the board is pointless in my opinion. I remember leaving our first born asleep in a motel room while we had dinner about 20 meters away, while we took turns checking on him. Some might consider us irresponsible parents. They'd be wrong.

Except they left a kid and two babies alone for over an hour (she was heard crying for an hour before they returned) late at night in a foreign country while they went off drinking with friends.


EDIT - With an unlocked door.

 

[lionking]

What part of the experienced, professional police investigators making them suspects and the head detective writing a book saying he thinks they disposed of her body after an accident, trumps my suspicions of them doing some suspicious things?

The part where I said "many". I wasn't including a dollar-chasing, non-credible ex-detective.

 

[IamFreeCanIGo]

The part where I said "many". I wasn't including a dollar-chasing, non-credible ex-detective.

Many PJ cops with lots of experience thought they were suspicious enough to make them suspects.

Also i like how you try and descredit anyone with an opposing view just because they have an opposing view.

 

[Nessie]

For me anything supposedly odd about the Mccann's behaviour can be explained by any parent who takes young children on holiday. It is stressful at a time when you want to relax. So they took a risk thousands of parents do and they will leave the children not under close supervision to have some "me" time.

When it all went wrong they knew the risk had not been worth it. They knew they were going to cop blame as a distraction from the real issue of finding Madelaine.

 

[lionking]

For me anything supposedly odd about the Mccann's behaviour can be explained by any parent who takes young children on holiday. It is stressful at a time when you want to relax. So they took a risk thousands of parents do and they will leave the children not under close supervision to have some "me" time.

When it all went wrong they knew the risk had not been worth it. They knew they were going to cop blame as a distraction from the real issue of finding Madelaine.

It's also germane to consider the Azaria Chamberlain case, where the mother, Lindy, was wrongly considered guilty by so many because she didn't react "correctly".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azaria_Chamberlain

 

[Darat]

I don't think it is wrong to suspect that the parents may have been responsible for her disappearance because statistically they are of course by far the most likely to harm their child (than anyone else). However that is only statistically and it is clear that both the Portuguese and British police have investigated that suspicion and there is no evidence (of course add a superfluous "so far" if you like) that links them to the child's disappearance.

 

[Nessie]

Many PJ cops with lots of experience thought they were suspicious enough to make them suspects.

Also i like how you try and descredit anyone with an opposing view just because they have an opposing view.

The only way they would not have been investigated at some point would have been if there were positive lines of enquiry such as comfirmed sightings of Madelaine being carried to and being placed in a vehicle and driven away. That there was nothing means all possibilities have to be covered as the aim is to eliminate and see what is left.

So it does not mean the police are suspicious of someone to investigate them. It can also mean they have no clear line of enquiry and so they start to eliminate to see if a clear line of enquiry appears.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

So it does not mean the police are suspicious of someone to investigate them. It can also mean they have no clear line of enquiry and so they start to eliminate to see if a clear line of enquiry appears.

I'd go further and say that it is very bad for the police to proceed on such grounds, we have numerous examples of how once an investigation starts going down one path a form of tunnel vision develops. Far, far better is for the police to (as they seem to be doing in this case) eliminate possible suspects. It's almost a real-life corollary of Sherlock's "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

 

[Nessie]

It's also germane to consider the Azaria Chamberlain case, where the mother, Lindy, was wrongly considered guilty by so many because she didn't react "correctly".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azaria_Chamberlain

Indeed. To the Portugeuse the reaction of the middle class British to a terrible event would seen odd.

 

[IamFreeCanIGo]

The only way they would not have been investigated at some point would have been if there were positive lines of enquiry such as comfirmed sightings of Madelaine being carried to and being placed in a vehicle and driven away. That there was nothing means all possibilities have to be covered as the aim is to eliminate and see what is left.

So it does not mean the police are suspicious of someone to investigate them. It can also mean they have no clear line of enquiry and so they start to eliminate to see if a clear line of enquiry appears.

Arguido - "It is given to a person whom the authorities suspect may have committed an offence"

 

[gtm]

The 'anti Mccannites' are seriously crackers.

They would have us believe that Gerry & Kate McCann killed & disposed of their daughter in an extremely limited timescale. This is despite the the fact they were in an unfamiliar country & the portugese police launched a massive search that would have easily found a shallow grave in the vicinity of Praia Da Luz.

Furthermore, they would have us believe that the McCanns persuade all 7 of the other attendees at the Tapas bar to conspire to cover this crime up. This ordinary middle couple are also meant to have very influential protectors in the establishment & are able to manipulate the worlds media at will.

The most likely scenario is the girl was taken by persons unknown.

 

[Nessie]

Arguido - "It is given to a person whom the authorities suspect may have committed an offence"

The terminology used does not change the way crimes with no obvious lines of enquiry are investigated. That phrase is not used in the UK, but in an enquiry with no leads relatives will be interviewed at some point and to do so properly they are dealt with and are given the same rights as an actual suspect.

 

[IamFreeCanIGo]

The 'anti Mccannites' are seriously crackers.

They would have us believe that Gerry & Kate McCann killed & disposed of their daughter in an extremely limited timescale. This is despite the the fact they were in an unfamiliar country & the portugese police launched a massive search that would have easily found a shallow grave in the vicinity of Praia Da Luz.

Furthermore, they would have us believe that the McCanns persuade all 7 of the other attendees at the Tapas bar to conspire to cover this crime up. This ordinary middle couple are also meant to have very influential protectors in the establishment & are able to manipulate the worlds media at will.

The most likely scenario is the girl was taken by persons unknown.

I havent seen anyone in the last few pages claim that at all. If you are including me in that list can you please link to my post that gave you that opinion.