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Machine Gun America

Gawdzilla said:
As I remember it the B.A.R. was the choice of the Feds and cops, because it outranged the Thompson. B&C used what they could find.
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Well Bonnie and Clyde got into at least one gunfight with law enforcement that they were seriously advantaged by having the B.A.R. vs the Thompsons the officers had. The B.A.R. shot through cars and the Thompson didn't.
 
Manopolus said:
I've been in the military, and I've shot many firearms. However, it will never cease to amaze me that the fascination that some people have with things that go boom and my complete disinterest in such things can exist in the same world. Seriously, I never considered shooting a firearm to be particularly "fun." I always considered it more of the lines of "boring" and "annoying."

I wasn't in combat arms though... ordinance corps.
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BStrong said:
You wrote laws?
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Yeah, whatever... I put an extra "i" in there, I think. I suspect most military folks knew what I meant though. Basically ammo supply, storage, and upkeep... mostly tank rounds and MRLS pods at the facility I was stationed at, although we had quite a variety of stuff.

I'll have to admit... I did find blowing up C4 was sort of interesting during training... but I wouldn't really even say that was fun per se. I was much more interested in how it worked than I was in the boom it made. It was part of my training mainly because that's what we would supposedly use to blow up all the ammo at once if an enemy was headed to our local ammo dump and we couldn't stop them.
 
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luchog said:
There is only one instance of a legally-owned fully-automatic weapon ever having been used in a crime. And the owner/perpetrator was a police officer.
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Is there a date on that, or evidence that say the ones used in the st valentines day massacre were illegally obtained?
 
Manopolus said:
Y It was part of my training mainly because that's what we would supposedly use to blow up all the ammo at once if an enemy was headed to our local ammo dump and we couldn't stop them.
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Well, we can't stop them NOW; you blew up all our ammo! :D
 
ponderingturtle said:
Is there a date on that, or evidence that say the ones used in the st valentines day massacre were illegally obtained?
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St. Val's Massacre was the straw that finally tipped the load to a federal weapons law, of 1934. So, at SVDM, the Tommies were legal.

Congress used "congress has the right to raise taxes" to put a tax on MGs that was higher than their value, $300 at purchase. It's called a Transfer Tax.

eta: More recent federal gun laws use the "interstate commerce" clause.
 
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Manopolus said:
Yeah, whatever... I put an extra "i" in there, I think. I suspect most military folks knew what I meant though. Basically ammo supply, storage, and upkeep... mostly tank rounds and MRLS pods at the facility I was stationed at, although we had quite a variety of stuff.

I'll have to admit... I did find blowing up C4 was sort of interesting during training... but I wouldn't really even say that was fun per se. I was much more interested in how it worked than I was in the boom it made. It was part of my training mainly because that's what we would supposedly use to blow up all the ammo at once if an enemy was headed to our local ammo dump and we couldn't stop them.
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No worries, I had a little fun at your expense, and I'm not a GN.
 
casebro said:
St. Val's Massacre was the straw that finally tipped the load to a federal weapons law, of 1934. So, at SVDM, the Tommies were legal.

Congress used "congress has the right to raise taxes" to put a tax on MGs that was higher than their value, $300 at purchase. It's called a Transfer Tax.

eta: More recent federal gun laws use the "interstate commerce" clause.
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Most of the full-auto firearms used before the N.F.A. '34 were stolen, although there were some purchases (particularly from a gunsmith/dealer in San Antonio Texas that also was found to have converted some Colt Government Models in .38 Super to full auto for Pretty Boy Floyd)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_S._Lehman

General FYI, the transfer tax was then and is now $200.00.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Is there a date on that, or evidence that say the ones used in the st valentines day massacre were illegally obtained?
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Columbus, Ohio - A former Dayton Police Officer, incarcerated in an Ohio prison since 1990 is scheduled for a parole hearing in January.

Roger W. Waller, now 54, was convicted of murder and felonious assault for shooting two men September 15, 1988 in what was a very bizarre and unusual set of circumstances. Waller was a Dayton police officer and was assigned to a special unit which coordinated tips about drug dealers and drug houses. His operations were strictly administrative.

Waller was with his friend Dennis Michael when someone fixing his furnace told Waller about a drug house in his neighborhood. Waller's friend, Dennis Michael also said he knew of a drug house in his neighborhood. Waller took his friend Michael, who was not a police officer, to investigate the two reports. Waller was on his day off and the police department did not know his whereabouts or the details of his investigation. In fact, Waller was not authorized to even conduct investigations such as this. Waller was not in uniform, but was carrying his 9mm pistol, radio and had a Mac-11 machine gun under his jacket. Waller's buddy, Michael was carrying a shotgun.

http://www.examiner.com/article/incarcerated-dayton-cop-to-see-parole-board
 
BStrong said:
The mag capacity is limited by the magazine's location - if you try to use a mag much bigger than the standard 20 rounder (some custom 25 round mags are out there) the thing monopods on the magazine - not a good situation.

The British BREN and the variuos ZB top feeders have no such limitation and have a quick change barrel in most examples, and as much as it pains me to admit it, those are better suited to the job than the BAR.
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D'oh! I should have thought of that. I guess a lot depends on how it was envisaged the BAR as being primarily used, i.e. from a prone position on a bipod.

It's interesting to note that when the British Brens were rebarrelled for 7.62, the new 30-round magazine was interchangable with the FN FAL - or at least the L1A1 - and thus were popular with soldiers in Northern Ireland using the battle rifle (subject to beefing up the weaker magazine spring). The increased capacity more than cancelled out any issues with prone firing. Such use was obviously "unofficial," so it was usually a case of patrolling with a 20-round magazine, and reloading with the 30 when circumstances required it.

It was also common for one or two men in a patrol to have had their L1A1's subject to a temporary tamper so that they would fire on full-auto, but they would do so until the magazine was exhausted, regardless of whether or not the trigger was released. Back in the day a friend in the RAF Regiment told me how the modification was done, and said it was accepted on the ground as a necessary "last-ditch" option in case of heavy ambush by the IRA, particularly if the patrol didn't have a GPMG with them.
 
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Information Analyst said:
D'oh! I should have thought of that. I guess a lot depends on how it was envisaged the BAR as being primarily used, i.e. from a prone position on a bipod.



It's interesting to note that when the British Brens were rebarrelled for 7.62, the new 30-round magazine was interchangable with the FN FAL - or at least the L1A1 - and thus were popular with soldiers in Northern Ireland using the battle rifle (subject to beefing up the weaker magazine spring). The increased capacity more than cancelled out any issues with prone firing. Such use was obviously "unofficial," so it was usually a case of patrolling with a 20-round magazine, and reloading with the 30 when circumstances required it.



It was also common for one or two men in a patrol to have had their L1A1's subject to a temporary tamper so that they would fire on full-auto, but they would do so until the magazine was exhausted, regardless of whether or not the trigger was released. Back in the day a friend in the RAF Regiment told me how the modification was done, and said it was accepted on the ground as a necessary "last-ditch" option in case of heavy ambush by the IRA, particularly if the patrol didn't have a GPMG with them.
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In the CF we used the C2 LMG - a selective fire, heavy barrelled C1 with an integral bipod and a thirty round mag. It was wonderful on full auto with live rounds, but it was nearly a bolt action rifle when you used blanks. The lack of a changeable barrel was a problem
 
Border Reiver said:
In the CF we used the C2 LMG - a selective fire, heavy barrelled C1 with an integral bipod and a thirty round mag. It was wonderful on full auto with live rounds, but it was nearly a bolt action rifle when you used blanks. The lack of a changeable barrel was a problem
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Yes, the Australian L2A1. I don't think the British gave that serious consideration, probably because of the massive stock of .303 Brens, the best of which could be converted to 7.62 mm L4A1 standard. Obviously a lot of talk is about how 30-round L4 magazines could be used in the L1A1, but that's just a reverse byproduct of the original intention that the L4 could use L1 magazines in an emergency.
 
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