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Mac vs PC

Dr. Lao said:
I have zero desire to spend more money than necessary to buy a machine that does the same thing, but makes me look trendy.
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Which is exactly not the reason I own a Mac. This is the type of ignorant post that bothers me, because you think that the only reason I would own a Mac is to be trendy, and not even think that for me (graphic design, film, and 3D Animation) a Mac would be the best choice. I get tired of being in a library and here people say those things about me, not knowing that I bought my Mac for actual reasons other than being trendy.

NEVERTHELESS...I originally bought my first Mac not of deal with any of the bonuses you mentioned, and so that is all relative.
 
It's so trendy to say you didn't buy your Mac because it's trendy. :p

I bought mine for one reason: "legal" access to OS X whenever I wanted (partly for support purposes, partly because I tend to hack at any new OS I use).
 
I forgot to add, I just installed Windows 7 on a new HD, smoothest install ever. And, my all in one HP printer/scanner installed in about a minute, no problems.

I have been running PC since the 8088 days with 2 floppy discs and before that Commodore 64 and Vic 20.

My PC can do anything a Mac can do, and much more and it cost less. And, I have the knowledge to upgrade it myself and tweak it myself and make it the kind of machine I want, for so much less money. But, I don't look trendy/ignorant, oh well.

(and I don't have the Apple smug that folks that don't understand how to build and program do)
 
jsiv said:
It can't run software that is only available for OS X.
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This isn't really true, OSX can be installed on PC hardware, although I would say that doing so isn't really for the faint hearted ;)
 
Terry said:
Except... you wouldn't be able to run your applications without it. Making it more than a bit useful in my mind.
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Manufacturers provide the drivers. How to hook it up to an OS was solved years ago. If all you are doing is running the most popular apps, the hard work is all done in the app. There is a lot of pretty wrapping being worked on, but OSX is fundamentally just a pretty wrapping for a public domain version of Unix.
 
Ducky said:
ps -ef | grep firefox | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2}' | xargs -i kill {} \;
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With Cygwin I can do:
C:\>bash
bash-3.2$ ps -eWf | grep firefox | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2}' | xargs -i kill -f '{}' ;

Of course, not being able to assume that those commands are always available for use in scripting is a problem. That isn't really an OS issue - MS could "fix" this by including UNIX-ish commands and shells as part of a future version of Windows.

As an OS, two things that hurt Windows are:
1) No multiple command line arguments. Applications are responsible for splitting the command line into arguments, and they don't all do it the same way. This makes program integration difficult.
2) Use of 2D console instead of stream-based terminals. No pty equivalent (except with Cygwin apps) makes program integration difficult, since output buffering can not be suppressed for many programs. The only work-around is to run programs in debug mode and monitor terminal activity, but that causes security warnings under Vista.
 
Modified said:
That isn't really an OS issue - MS could "fix" this by including UNIX-ish commands and shells as part of a future version of Windows.
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They have. It, which they call PowerShell, is included with Windows 7. It is also available as a free download for XP and Vista. Now, I have no idea how to use it or how good it is compared to UNIX, but the function is there.
 
ohms said:
This isn't really true, OSX can be installed on PC hardware, although I would say that doing so isn't really for the faint hearted ;)
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Well yes, but then it pretty much qualifies as a Mac minus the Apple logo.

dtugg said:
They have. It, which they call PowerShell, is included with Windows 7. It is also available as a free download for XP and Vista. Now, I have no idea how to use it or how good it is compared to UNIX, but the function is there.
Click to expand...
It's nothing like any of the Unixy shells and will have anyone who is familiar with those hiding under their bed in terror. That's not saying it isn't good, but it is very different.
 
Ducky said:
Darat said:
What can you do in OSX Snow Leopard that you can't do in Windows7?
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ps -ef | grep firefox | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2}' | xargs -i kill {} \;
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iceewydt.jpg


As for the commands themselves, most of them can be found in the Unix Utils for Win32 package.

-----

jsiv said:
dtugg said:
They have. It, which they call PowerShell, is included with Windows 7. It is also available as a free download for XP and Vista. Now, I have no idea how to use it or how good it is compared to UNIX, but the function is there.
Click to expand...

It's nothing like any of the Unixy shells and will have anyone who is familiar with those hiding under their bed in terror. That's not saying it isn't good, but it is very different.
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For server and system administration purposes, it's quite like 'Unixy' shells. That's the beauty of it (as soon as I get more acquainted with the C# language).
 
GreNME said:
For server and system administration purposes, it's quite like 'Unixy' shells. That's the beauty of it (as soon as I get more acquainted with the C# language).
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gci|? {!$_.psiscontainer}|sort -p length|% -b {$i=1} -p {do something}

Yeah. Totally!
 
Modified said:
With Cygwin I can do:
C:\>bash
bash-3.2$ ps -eWf | grep firefox | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2}' | xargs -i kill -f '{}' ;

Of course, not being able to assume that those commands are always available for use in scripting is a problem. That isn't really an OS issue - MS could "fix" this by including UNIX-ish commands and shells as part of a future version of Windows.

As an OS, two things that hurt Windows are:
1) No multiple command line arguments. Applications are responsible for splitting the command line into arguments, and they don't all do it the same way. This makes program integration difficult.
2) Use of 2D console instead of stream-based terminals. No pty equivalent (except with Cygwin apps) makes program integration difficult, since output buffering can not be suppressed for many programs. The only work-around is to run programs in debug mode and monitor terminal activity, but that causes security warnings under Vista.
Click to expand...

It was a joke...


However I have yet to see a windows port of dtrace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTrace


OSX does support dtrace. As well as zfs.

But honestly I don't care. This is all semantics and os holy war nonsense.

Let's all ****ing revert to using amigaOS.
 
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Ducky said:
OSX does support dtrace.
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Well, Windows has xperf for tracing. It also has things like just-in-time debugging (the ability to debug a program before it terminates), which few other OSes have!

There's pros and cons to everything.
 
Modified said:
But lack of those or similar commands as part of the standard installation really is a serious weakness.
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There are similar equivalents to be installed with powershell. It's only a weakness if all you know is unixy bash scripting and are stuck on a windows server.
 
jimtron said:
I don't know, but I keep hearing folks say that Macs are much more expensive for comparable PCs. I did some Googling and I found some articles that showed there was a wash, or that Macs were actually cheaper. Maybe you're right, but I still haven't seen a comparison where the PC had the same (or better) features for significantly less money. I honestly don't know how much it would cost to add the other stuff.
Click to expand...

I had pc's for 10 years. Two and a half months ago I decided to take the plunge. I bought a 24" iMac. I had long bought into the myth that Macs are way more expensive than pc's. Not so in my case. I sat down and figured out what it would cost to replace all the peripherals for a new pc, that come built into the Mac-------speakers, monitor, webcam, headset, printer, (I got a new wireless all-in-one for $100 with the Mac. They then send you a rebate for $100). Especially the monitor. The result was that it would have cost me just as much to replace my old pc system bit by bit as it cost to buy the iMac with all that stuff built into it.

I was also amazed at how much electrical spaghetti I got rid of behind the computer desk---------only the power cord off the back of the Mac. No VGA line and power cord for a monitor, no wires or power cords for the speakers or web cam, and no need for a microphone or a headset. The new printer is wireless, and the Mac comes wireless capable. It took me minutes to set it up and I'm no techie by any stretch of the imagination.

Now having said that, I'm not a Microsoft hater. I used Windows for all those years and feel quite comfortable with it. I also have a laptop with XP on it, and intend to keep it for a good while. I also have the option to load my XP disc from the pc onto the Mac, and have both OS's on the machine. It's quite a procedure though from what I can see, and I don't know if I'll do that or not at this point. I just sent for the upgrade to Snow Leopard. We'll see how that goes. I should have it this week.

So I'm new to Macs, but I know other people who have them, and they just rave about how good they are. My daughter and SIL both have them now and they tell me they will never go back to a Windows machine. I work with a couple of people who have them and they
tell me the same thing. I'm still in the learning curve here.

The way I see it is that they are two different OS's, each with their own quirks, problems and vulnerabilities, and advantages and disadvantages. The Macs are nearly virus free, at least for the time being. Eventually, if Mac gets a much larger share of the computer market, someone will start finding ways to write the nasties for them. I have McAfee for Mac on mine because I'm a Comcast customer and it comes with your subscription. The fact is that right now, there are no known, current viruses for it to detect. Or so I've read.
 
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