Luton Airport Car Park Fire

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Vixen said:
Many hybrid cars are diesel powered. It could have been modified.
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Find us an example of a diesel car that's been converted to a diesel hybrid.

There's a growing cottage industry in converting cool old cars into EVs. They're expensive toys mostly. I have literally never heard of anyone ever converting a ten year old diesel car into a diesel hybrid. Find us a single example and I might take the idea seriously enough to wait for the results of the investigation.
 
Vixen said:
My sixpence says the withholding of information is business reputation damage limitation for Jaguar Land Rover. What politicians and lawyers do isn't what they describe as 'lying'. They call it 'in the public interest'.
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It has been confirmed that the car was a diesel.
 
Vixen said:
I didn't say it was an EV. My POV is that a lithium-ion fire cannot be ruled out.


Many hybrid cars are diesel powered. It could have been modified.

You can't know all of these facts on Day One whilst the fire is blazing. Maybe that is what it appears from a CCTV or car reg recognition but even then, fake number plates are a possibility. It simply is not possible to 'confirm' what caused the fire when the investigation had not even started yet.
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It's been confirmed by the fire service that it was a diesel car
 
Jack by the hedge said:
There's a growing cottage industry in converting cool old cars into EVs. They're expensive toys mostly. I have
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There's a very good UK series on Quest channel called Vintage Voltage that follows conversions by a specialist company in Wales. They have converted all kinds of stuff, sports cars, vans and even a three wheel Isetta.

Apart from the cost of the original car the conversions cost tens of thousands

It's worth watching, there are two seasons of it.

www.vintagevoltage.tv

It's on MotorTrend network in the USA.

Any conversion means the car has to be re-registered and put through a very thorough series of tests before it gets a registration. If you try to do it 'unofficially' the car wouldn't pass it's annual MOT and you wouldn't get insurance or tax.

If you try to use it without not, tax or insurance you will light up every ANPR camera in every police traffic car you pass.
 
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Jack by the hedge said:
Find us an example of a diesel car that's been converted to a diesel hybrid.

There's a growing cottage industry in converting cool old cars into EVs. They're expensive toys mostly. I have literally never heard of anyone ever converting a ten year old diesel car into a diesel hybrid. Find us a single example and I might take the idea seriously enough to wait for the results of the investigation.
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It's theoretically possible, but as you say, why bother with this car? And then apparently not register it as a hybrid/EV so not saving on road tax. If it isn't appropriately registered it wouldn't be MOT, tax or insurable rendering it liable to be pulled any time it goes past a police car.
 
Just so. It's hypothetically possible, but futile and a massive waste of money. By far the most economical way to make a diesel Range Rover into a diesel hybrid Range Rover is to sell the diesel one and buy a hybrid one. Clearly it ought to be possible to swap the entire drivetrain from one to the other but it would be pointlessly expensive.

Engine swaps are a thing, sure, but typically consist of enthusiasts trying to shoehorn a big petrol V8 into cars that didn't come with that option. With a Range Rover you just sell the diesel one and buy a petrol V8 one.
 
Or, as I have come across a lot in my job, people swapping their diesel for LPG or biodiesel. I work in a job where people making their diesel into a hybrid would be a huge thing because it would stop them paying charges, but I've never seen it happen. Not once.
 
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Vixen said:
He will have liaised closely with the police. Clearly he was told not to name the brand of car.
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Mojo said:
Why would the police be concerned about this?
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Vixen said:
In this type of incident the police would liaise with the regional fire brigade, which has the ultimate responsibility of bringing out the official fire report. As blame apportioning is involved then of course the police are involved at an early stage.
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Doesn't answer the question. Why would the police be concerned about the make of the car being named by the fire brigade?
 
Clearly they leaned on the police and the police leaned on the fire service. So everyone sticks to the party line.

The only question remaining is which party. My sixpence is on the official monster racing loony party.
 
zooterkin said:
Do you think the 'legal bods' would allow the official website of the Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service to publish an untruth for as long as they have?



Who is setting this imaginary party line? Is it different from the truth?
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Even the lawyers are ruled by the Simple English folk. It's a tough job for them.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
The point of "plain English" is to communicate clearly, not to obfuscate. If it unintentionally changes the meaning it is bad writing, not Plain English.
 
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Vixen said:
The thing is, when Andrew Hopkinson chief fire officer of Beds said, "“We don’t believe it was an electric vehicle,” Andrew Hopkinson, chief fire officer for Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service, said.

“It’s believed to be diesel-powered, at this stage all subject to verification. And then that fire has quickly and rapidly spread.”

He was not lying.

A picture was circulated of the suspect car, which the public were supposed to work out for themselves was a Range Rover. As Range Rover are not bringing out a full EV until 2024, then Hopkinson can say it is not believed to be an EV with full confidence. Likewise, there is nothing to prevent a diesel car from also being a mild hybrid or a plug-in hybrid as the diesel will be the majority power of the car. So he is not lying there, either.

In the Liverpool Fire the make and model of the originating vehicle was named immediately (Range Rover) but on this occasion the fire brigade has not actually uttered those words, so your number one surmise that legal advise is what has come into play here. This could be because:

  • There is a trheat of legal action against the car brand which could backfire if wrongly named.
  • Political pressure from high up due to the recent investment in a Jaguar Land Rover gigfactory to make Car Batteries via Tata, the owners of JLR.
  • There may be a polcie investigation ongoing. That will be a gag.
  • The Fire Brigade works closely with the police to draw up its Fire Report, so it would be unethical to announce a cause before the investigation has been completed.
  • A man has been arrested 'as a precaution' on suspicion of Criminal Damage. The police might not want to alert other suspects, so he is effectively also gagged and stopped from leaving the country.
  • The press are gagged from identifying this guy or discussing him due to the police arrest.

So you see, there is no conspiracy or 'lie' per se.

If as expected it is revealed to be a q-lithium battery fault then there is no loss of face for the fire brigade as they did say subject to verification and it was diesel as they believed.

As with the Liverpool car park fire, no-one was killed or seriously hurt so I expect that by the time the report comes out it'll be yesterday's news hidden on page 5 which most people will have forgotten about already. But there has been a lot of public interest in this particular case so it will be interesting to see how it is handled if it turns out it was indeed a lithium battery issue initially. They may never know for sure.
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Nobody except you is expecting it to be a lithium battery fault. The car was a diesel. You should write "If as I expect..." to convey that more clearly.
 
jeremyp said:
Nobody except you is expecting it to be a lithium battery fault. The car was a diesel. You should write "If as I expect..." to convey that more clearly.
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That would be "Plain English" (active rather than passive).

ETA:
Active voice makes it clear who is supposed to do what. It eliminates ambiguity about responsibilities. Not “It must be done,” but “You must do it.” Passive voice obscures who is responsible for what and is one of the biggest problems with government writing.
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https://www.plainlanguage.gov/guidelines/conversational/use-active-voice/
 
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