Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

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The Experts.

So Vixen, where is the list of "many experts" who support your conspiratorial fictions?
 
Vixen said:
The Secretary of State minister responsible is Chris Philp:

wiki

It is just not feasible that this minister would not be directly involved at the outset.
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All you have is incredulity, then?

I'm quite prepared to believe he'd be informed. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that goes beyond that? Anything at all to support your bonkers assertion that he issued a statement for the Chief Fire Officer to deliver to the press? Hello?



ETA: And he's the Minister, not Secretary of State, for Crime, Policing and Fire.
 
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Jack by the hedge said:
Reversing the burden of proof again.

The post I responded to was on a different subject; your complaint that the driver's identity has not been made public.

Now instead you appear to be talking about how the fire service might have learned the car was diesel powered, and demanding a poster here supply you with proof that one entirely reasonable and likely scenario is in fact what happened.
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I wasn't complaining, I was pointing out that the press has not revealed anything about the driver and that supports a press embargo. Which is to be expected whilst an investigation is ongoing. You say there is no press embargo and the driver is not known because why should he be subjected to unwanted scrutiny, which again is missing the point being made in the first place.
 
Vixen said:
... it is other posters who are insisting that Hopkinson must have got his information the vehicle was a diesel from the driver himself...
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No. Not "must". The fire service could have got the information from the driver, and they could have got the information from the car's reg plate logged by the ANPR camera which will be at the car park entrance.

You're twisting this to try to reverse the burden of proof and it's rather obvious that you're doing it.
 
Vixen said:
I wasn't complaining, I was pointing out that the press has not revealed anything about the driver and that supports a press embargo. Which is to be expected whilst an investigation is ongoing. You say there is no press embargo and the driver is not known because why should he be subjected to unwanted scrutiny, which again is missing the point being made in the first place.
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One scenario is that there is a press embargo and that this is why the driver's details haven't been released.

A second, slightly more plausible scenario is that there is no press embargo and no reason to name the driver.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
No. Not "must". The fire service could have got the information from the driver, and they could have got the information from the car's reg plate logged by the ANPR camera which will be at the car park entrance.

You're twisting this to try to reverse the burden of proof and it's rather obvious that you're doing it.
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There are up to 1,500 vehicles that would be registered on the ANPR at the time, vehicles coming and going all the time. Yes, there is CCTV footage of where the fire likely started. But looking at all of that does not happen within two hours of the fire being extinguished. The fire started circa 20:38 in the evening, was declared a major incident 21:30-ish, the 'critical incident' was stood down three hours later at 12:20am, fire under control and finally extinguished 8:45 am. Press conference 10:00am-ish. Given there were over 100 fire fighters, the top priority is firefighter and public safety. The Fire Brigade and the Police are together responsible for investigate a serious fire.

Is it realistic to believe it possible for Mr. Hopkinson to confirm it was not an electric vehicle of any sort (even though early mild hybrids were still classed by DVLA as 'diesel' or mono-fuelled).

It is obvious to persons with industry experience that the 'diesel' statement was designed to quell public concerns and to reassure the public.

Next thing we knew all the EVangelists piled in turning it into a battle of ideologies.
 
Vixen said:
It comes under the auspices of several departments, Fire, Police and the Secretary of State for transport. When there is an incident at an airport, for example, when some guy crashed his car into Glasgow Airport gates, it is treated as a matter of national security. With flights cancelled and 20,000 passengers stranded, of course the government is notified. Of course the first press release is carefully worded.


The idea that the investigation has opened and closed on day one is ludicrous, yet this is what people here are demanding.
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Waffle. The fire service declared a major incident. That has a specific meaning. If the police or the Ministry of Transport declared any equivalent emergency, perhaps you can provide some reference which says so. Or perhaps they didn't, and you're just trying to muddy the waters rather than retract your claim of a "major national incident" which would have alerted government ministers.

Once again you return to your false claim that remarks made at a press conference are a carefully-worded "press release". Clearly begging the question when you say "of course" it was "carefully worded".

The idea that the investigation should be concluded in a day is of course ludicrous. So please will you point out those who you claim have demanded this?
 
catsmate said:
:rolleyes:
Yet again your frantic Googling for something to support your conspiracy fictions (thanks George) shows your utter lack of comprehension.
There were "13,000" logged claims of plates being cloned, mainly for the purpose of avoiding fines.
  • Actually there were about 12,000 over 18 months, but the right-wing UKian press tend to exaggerate criminality to whip up their base.
There were not nearly as many false plates in use.
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Thanks for that. 13,000 convictions did seem like an absurdly high number but I couldn't summon the will to find out what the statistic really represented.
 
catsmate said:
That's a suspiciously specific denial. Are you an alien seeking to steal Earth's water? A time traveller? A shape-shifter from a different dimension with ambitions? Four arms optional.
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One extra arm and head.

He's a hoopy frood.
 
Vixen said:
It comes under the auspices of several departments, Fire, Police and the Secretary of State for transport. When there is an incident at an airport, for example, when some guy crashed his car into Glasgow Airport gates, it is treated as a matter of national security. With flights cancelled and 20,000 passengers stranded, of course the government is notified. Of course the first press release is carefully worded.


The idea that the investigation has opened and closed on day one is ludicrous, yet this is what people here are demanding.
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Who says the investigation was opened and closed in one day?

Is there a difference between a fire in a car park and a direct terrorist attack on an airport terminal?
 
Vixen said:
Mr Hopkinson did not lie; he said, and it is obviously a well prepared statement and not one ad libbing off the cuff...
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No, it really isn't obvious. With the possible proviso of likely keeping notes of details like the precise times he gave, a person competent at their job could have delivered that report with ease, entirely unscripted. Why do you doubt it?
 
catsmate said:
Which is more than a friend-of-a-friend of mine can do, as he loaded the tank of his new transit with unleaded.....
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I nearly did it a couple of times with my own car. I had a diesel work van that I drove most days, I got in to the habit of picking up the diesel nozzle. Luckily I realised my mistake in time.
 
Vixen said:
Mr Hopkinson did not lie; he said, and it is obviously a well prepared statement and not one ad libbing off the cuff:



Which part of that statement is 'lying'?
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The fire service have stated it was a diesel car. Hopkinson is the boss at the fire service. Any official statement is on him.

That makes him and the fire service deliberate liars in your book. They are covering up the actual cause of the fire.

You still haven't told me which junior minister told him to tell lies.
 
Vixen said:
The Secretary of State minister responsible is Chris Philp:

wiki

It is just not feasible that this minister would not be directly involved at the outset.
Click to expand...

So is that the minister that told the fire service and police to deliberately lie about the cause of the fire?
 
Vixen said:
There are up to 1,500 vehicles that would be registered on the ANPR at the time, vehicles coming and going all the time. Yes, there is CCTV footage of where the fire likely started. But looking at all of that does not happen within two hours of the fire being extinguished. The fire started circa 20:38 in the evening, was declared a major incident 21:30-ish, the 'critical incident' was stood down three hours later at 12:20am, fire under control and finally extinguished 8:45 am. Press conference 10:00am-ish. Given there were over 100 fire fighters, the top priority is firefighter and public safety. The Fire Brigade and the Police are together responsible for investigate a serious fire.

Is it realistic to believe it possible for Mr. Hopkinson to confirm it was not an electric vehicle of any sort (even though early mild hybrids were still classed by DVLA as 'diesel' or mono-fuelled).

It is obvious to persons with industry experience that the 'diesel' statement was designed to quell public concerns and to reassure the public.

Next thing we knew all the EVangelists piled in turning it into a battle of ideologies.
Click to expand...

There again they could have looked at the engine after the fire was out.
 
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