Lunatic Ron Paul to Oversee the Fed

The Austrian school aren’t real economists, they’re social theorists masquerading as economists. They provide no formulas or models or anything that can be considered robust economic analysis, which is why they are shunned by the mainstream.

liar

there are PHd programs in the UNited States and other countries for "austrian economics".. if you have 3 minutes i would highly recommend this powerpoint presentation from an Auburn University professor, not exactly Harvard but Roger Garrison is a leading academic figure in this theory of economics.

http://www.auburn.edu/~garriro/lvmi.htm
 
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The different currencies backed by assorted commodities sounds a bit impractical.

The grocery store might not take the vouchers from other stores, and what is the exchange rate between liters of milk and punches on a bus card?

They would have to set up some system with a commonly accepted unit of value, and have some organisation to oversee and enforce it.
 

Prove I was lying. Being in error is not the same thing.

Critics have concluded that modern Austrian economics generally lacks scientific rigor, which forms the basis of the most prominent criticism of the school. Austrian theories are not formulated in formal mathematical form, but by using mainly verbal logic and what proponents claim are self-evident axioms. Mainstream economists believe that this makes Austrian theories too imprecisely defined to be clearly used to explain or predict real world events. Economist Bryan Caplan noted that, "what prevents Austrian economists from getting more publications in mainstream journals is that their papers rarely use mathematics or econometrics."

A related criticism is applied to Austrian School leaders; these leaders have advocated a rejection of methods which involve directly using empirical data in the development of (falsifiable) theories; application of empirical data is fundamental to the scientific method. In particular, Austrian School leader, Ludwig von Mises, has been described as the mid-20th century's "archetypal 'unscientific' economist." Mises wrote of his economic methodology that "its statements and propositions are not derived from experience... They are not subject to verification or falsification on the ground of experience and facts."

Murray Rothbard was also an adherent of Mises's methodology, and though Rothbard assigned a quasi-empirical description to it, he comments that "it should be obvious that this type of 'empiricism' is so out of step with modern empiricism that I may just as well continue to call it a priori for present purposes". Additionally, the prominent Austrian economist, F. A. Hayek, stated his belief that social science theories can "never be verified or falsified by reference to facts." Such rejections of empirical evidence in economics by Austrian School leaders have led to the school being dismissed within the mainstream.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School
 
Uh, the removal of regulatory oversight with the repeal of Glass-Steagall played a part in the crisis, absolutely. Nobody here said it was the “core” of the crisis.

I'm still awaiting a coherent argument about how GS was a substantial contributor to the problem. Point to exactly which transactions would have been illegal before Bill Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagal.

As for Ron’s lunacy, he described evolution as “just a theory”, is absolutely obsessed with gold and wants to return to some kind of gold standard, ...

and

Hilarious.

You've apparently never seen Ron Paul on the theory of evolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOO4puYp5F0

"I think it's a theory... the theory of evolution and I don't accept it. As a theory."

So please make a list for me of all the congressmen who DON'T believe in deist woo. AFAIK three are none who are openly agnostic or atheist. The current president claims to believe that some jewish guy 2000 yrs ago was a deity and also claims that this has a direct impact on his thinking. I wasn't arguing that RPaul is any better than the average representative, just that he is no worse than most.

I have learned a little more of RP following the links here, he's pretty far off the beaten path, but I'm still not convinced that makes him nuttier than Barney Frank who nominally believes he's part of gods chosen ppl.

Try to parse the argument before you rebut.
 
People who are obsessed with something can become darn near experts on it - and still be wrong.
I've seen no evidence at all that Ron Paul is an expert on the Fed. Quite the opposite actually... much like truthers are not experts on 9/11 despite being obsessed with it.
 
I've seen no evidence at all that Ron Paul is an expert on the Fed. Quite the opposite actually... much like truthers are not experts on 9/11 despite being obsessed with it.

One can know quite a lot about something - disconnected facts and trivia and stuff - without understanding it, and some people have much looser standards for "expert" than others.

So you might kind of make the case that Ron Paul is sort of an expert on the Fed by some peoples´ standards, more or less. ;)
 
I'm still awaiting a coherent argument about how GS was a substantial contributor to the problem. Point to exactly which transactions would have been illegal before Bill Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagal.

Er, mortgage securitization by commercial banks? Am I missing something?
 
I've seen no evidence at all that Ron Paul is an expert on the Fed. Quite the opposite actually... much like truthers are not experts on 9/11 despite being obsessed with it.

To echo Chaos, I was using "expert" rather loosely. The CT world is filled with people who know insane minutia of a topic, but being an anorak doesn't make you always right. I honestly don't know how much Paul even knows about the Fed (other then it being bad), but I'll take people's word on it that he knows far more than the average guy.
 
What does Ron Paul believe that's so ridiculous?
He believes in a magical fantasy world where the free market forces take care of all greed and corruption. And apparently the influence of marketing is not an issue in distorting the free market in magical land.
 
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He believes in a magical fantasy world where the free market forces take care of all greed and corruption. And apparently the influence of marketing is not an issue in distorting the free market in magical land.

so youre saying that believing in libertarian principles constitutes lunacy?
 
so youre saying that believing in libertarian principles constitutes lunacy?
That's a bit of a distortion of what I said. So to clarify, Ron Paul's Libertarian version of reality is a bit more loony than your average Libertarian. I just listened to a Ron Paul interview a couple hours ago on this subject on the news. Paul doesn't discuss the issues, he spews his version of reality and continually laughs claiming his view is the only reality and there is just no question about it. Any challenge is simply dismissed and he again repeats his dogma. There is no discussion supporting why his version is correct, Paul simply declares it is.

Not all Libertarians have their own version of reality divorced from ever having to consider they are not necessarily correct. Rand Paul, for example, made a claim about private property rights and when that was carried out to its conclusion by Rachel Maddow asking him would he have allowed blacks to be excluded from lunch counters, Rand at least recognized his Libertarian position was untenable. He refused to discuss it further.

Had that been Ron Paul, I think he would have just denied reality, brushed it off as nonsense and kept on with Ron's personal version of reality.
 
Well tell that to Ron Paul. The point is that he thinks that homeopathy is a valid alternative to what he calls "allopathic medicine" (a word used by believers in homeopathy for modern medicine).

For clarification, I found a transcript of his remarks here:

I think that the above makes clear that he is a believer in homeopathy as well as "holistic and nutritional alternatives to current medical care." It also makes it clear that he believes that doctors shouldn't be required to have a license to practice medicine.

I personally think homeopathy is bunk, woo, whatever ... OTOH I have absolutely no interest in using the force of government to support a version of the medical "one-true-faith". The fact is that governments have repeatedly made vast and serous error in declaring one medical practice valid and others invalid. To my mind it's arbitrary and certainly totalitarian for a government to make such decisions. Exactly to that extent I support these alternative belief systems and oppose anyone who would seek to use the power of state to abolish them.

About 98% of our Congress proclaim a belief in deist woo. Many have espoused beliefs what I consider social woo - clear violations of the social contract. So why are you selectively picking on RPs reputed support in homeopathic woo when the topic is economics ? Are you equally concerned that our president believes that a Jewish son of a carpenter was divine, cured ppl by miracles, and further claims that modern US physicians prefer to perform amputations for profit motives ? The woo-believing, contra-factual believing president then proposes a vast overhaul of the medical services delivery system. Where is your proportional outrage there where the president's clear and present woo is directly related to his agenda ????

No - your ire is quite selective against those who are not of your political clan.


I've seen no evidence at all that Ron Paul is an expert on the Fed. Quite the opposite ...

I see no credible evidence the RP is an anti-semite, which didn't prevent you from proposing a vile, unevidence character assassination in post #69. Go away potty mouth.


Er, mortgage securitization by commercial banks? Am I missing something?

Yeah - you are missing something. COMMERCIAL banks have been permitted to engage in non-trivial amount of mortgage securitiization since 1987 change to GS. I see absolutely no coherent argument that the same amount of securitization would not have taken place via the investment banks alone even if the Commercials were still restricted to a 5% share as pre-1987. Lehman did (investment bank issuing MBAs) as a large player, others did too. Why wouldn't the IBanks take up the slack if the market forces were the same and the CBanks were prevented ?? Makes no sense.

Again - once the motivations were present in the form of an accepted miscalculation of risk, then the rest was inevitable. The securitization could have been outside US jurisdiction and that would only have modestly changed the total damage. You can't regulate gravity away.

Now I agree that the FDIC is foolish to insure commercial bank accounts where the bank is allowed to take "excessive" risk, but such is the nature of bureaucracies.


That's a bit of a distortion of what I said. So to clarify, Ron Paul's Libertarian version of reality is a bit more loony than your average Libertarian. I just listened to a Ron Paul interview a couple hours ago on this subject on the news. Paul doesn't discuss the issues, he spews his version of reality and continually laughs claiming his view is the only reality and there is just no question about it. Any challenge is simply dismissed and he again repeats his dogma. There is no discussion supporting why his version is correct, Paul simply declares it is.

Yeah - that's so different from other politicians. Like for example the president. Every other word from this highly acclaimed orator is "uh" and he spins he recent losses in Congress as due to the populace not understanding ... right. He was as adept as any other politician at giving the answer he wants to spew regardless of the question asked. Ron Paul is not among the worst half of slimey spin-master politicians.

Of course RP isn't presenting for his positions in an interview; it's silly for you to expect that. In case you haven't noticed, any real argument in the mainstream media is dissembled into small and easily mischaracterized bits and then lampooned for the ignorami. So for example Rand Paul states the arguable proposition that the Federal government overstepped it's bounds by forcing private lunch counters to de-segregrate and this is then characterized as Rand Paul is a bigoted racist who would have oppose the civil rights act. Or Paul Krugman makes some mal-statement about "death panels" and Fox plays it in a loop for a week as proof the government plans for death panels as part of health care.

Nope - there is a very good reason why nearly all politicians spew only well digested pablum in interviews, and why they try to present only the polished sides in debate (or else avoid debates).

You'll have to read to understand any politicians at any depth. OTOH they often lie in their writings too. I suggest you lookup up Obama's campaign energy "bluebook" on the wayback to see a steaming pile of half-aked baloney - abandoned on day 1.
 
I personally think homeopathy is bunk, woo, whatever ... OTOH I have absolutely no interest in using the force of government to support a version of the medical "one-true-faith". The fact is that governments have repeatedly made vast and serous error in declaring one medical practice valid and others invalid. To my mind it's arbitrary and certainly totalitarian for a government to make such decisions. Exactly to that extent I support these alternative belief systems and oppose anyone who would seek to use the power of state to abolish them.

We're talking about Medical Science here. It's not made-up witch-doctor claptrap like homeopathy or the like.

Or are you against teaching evolution in the schools too? Do you also have reservations about physics? Maybe we should teach the alternative crap to those too. We also need a return of alchemy.

Let's not teach people that 2+2=4 either. That's just totalitarian garbage too, right?

Do you even think about what you are saying?
 
We're talking about Medical Science here. It's not made-up witch-doctor claptrap like homeopathy or the like.

Or are you against teaching evolution in the schools too? Do you also have reservations about physics? Maybe we should teach the alternative crap to those too. We also need a return of alchemy.

Let's not teach people that 2+2=4 either. That's just totalitarian garbage too, right?

Do you even think about what you are saying?

Do you comprehend how weak and incomplete medical science is compared to physics of chemistry ? Do you understand why the certainty that 2+2=4 is categorically different from the results of the physical sciences ? No - you are one of the unwashed illiterati - you know nothing of science except that it's always tentative conclusions deserve your blind closed-minded faith. You think science is a religion, and you want the state to dictate it's conclusions.

To answer your idiotic question - yes I support the right to question all of science; in exactly the way Einstein demolished Newtonian physics - all of science is open to revision based on new observation. In your totalitarian science-faith that sort of fact based revision is not politically possible.

All of science changes regularly. Mostly "around the edges" but sometimes to the core. The model that science presents today is not the same model that will appear in a few years nor in the past - it changes regularly. It can never represent more than a current-evidence-consistent model that follows certain minimal precondition precepts.

--
Consider for the moment the controversy of the optimal mix of macronutrients (fat, protein, carbs) in the human diet. Or consider the very weak evidence and the optimal amounts of minerals and co-factors in the diet (iodine and zinc). Or consider saturated fats - looked on as carcinogenic for a few decades and then recent large scale studies show this is probably false. Yes there is some evidence on these topics, but not enough to allow a government to dictate your intake.

Homeopathy certainly does NOT make the cut when we are considering rational evidenced based theories of medicine, but freedom can only mean the freedom to choose things that others find wrongheaded.

So yes - I choose freedom, even if some people will act very foolishly to my way of thinking. I reject the idea of a government forcing it's scientific conclusions on anyone.

BTW - I'm a physicist.

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Back on topic - Ron Paul may or may not believe in homeopathy, Supporting it's right to be practiced does not demonstrate he is an adherent.

Many ppl on this thread expressed an amazing bias - pointing to Ron Pauls reported woo beliefs about medicine as a disqualification on economic matters, while totally ignoring that nearly all other politicians and most of the population express equally kookie woo beliefs. This selective ire is almost certainly due to their political opposition to RP, which rather deflates their arguments.
 
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Many ppl on this thread expressed an amazing bias - pointing to Ron Pauls reported woo beliefs about medicine as a disqualification on economic matters, while totally ignoring that nearly all other politicians and most of the population express equally kookie woo beliefs. This selective ire is almost certainly due to their political opposition to RP, which rather deflates their arguments.

Yes, I know tu quoque arguments are fun.

Anyways, I seem to recall people actually talking about Paul's own economic positions. Something about them being not actually reflective of reality.
 
One thing I've never understood about all the hate against Ron Paul is if he's so bad, how on earth did the get into the position of head of the House subcommittee that oversees monetary policy? Do you pundits know something that the people instrumental for his position don't know? You should email them with the facts.
 
One thing I've never understood about all the hate against Ron Paul is if he's so bad, how on earth did the get into the position of head of the House subcommittee that oversees monetary policy? Do you pundits know something that the people instrumental for his position don't know? You should email them with the facts.

So, in other words, you admit that all his arguments are worthless, and the only reason he might not be a total nutter is because he´s a member of some subcommittee?
 
So, in other words, you admit that all his arguments are worthless, and the only reason he might not be a total nutter is because he´s a member of some subcommittee?


What psychiatric qualifications do you have?
 

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