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Lucid Dreamers: Are we cheating ourselves / Can we do better?

I have a cat that likes to sleep at the foot of the bed, and I've kicked her off the bed before, which makes me feel just awful, and I ache that I can't explain to her that I didn't do it on purpose. She seems very hurt and slinks around for days and won't get on the bed for a while.

I can't remember how long it took me to train myself to lucid dream as a kid, but if I'm not mistaken it took years until I could do it consistently. At first, the dreams were very few and far apart.

I think the keys were (a) consistently thinking about it before I went to bed, and (b) when I did it, taking time to rerun the dream in my mind immediately and remember how it felt so I could recognize it again.
 
The hypothesis put forward in the NOVA feature is that non-REM dreams are focused on honing skills we are learning in our daily lives, and that REM dreams are focused on putting those skills to the test in hypothetical situations.

Therefore, REM dreams tend to be more negative and more often nightmarish.

I'm not so sure about that last part - AIUI we all dream more than we remember, and we tend to better remember the dreams we wake from (during). In my experience, I'm far more likely to wake during a disturbing dream than a pleasant one (lucid dreaming aside). If this is true of other people, an overall excess of disturbing dreams will be remembered/reported, even if they are in the minority of all dreams.

I only get disturbing dreams if I'm too hot in bed - it seems to be the way my subconscious wakes me up so I can cool down.

I get three different 'levels' of conscious awareness in dreams - fully lucid, where I try out things to see what will happen, and which are fairly rare; then there are observing dreams, where I am aware I'm dreaming, but don't interfere with the 'plot'; finally, the implicit awareness dreams where I'm not fully conscious of dreaming, but I know I have an extraordinary power - usually levitation - that isn't a 'real-world' possibility. One consistent oddity about levitation dreams for me is that no-one in the dreams takes any notice...

One useful trick I use if I'm unsure that I'm dreaming, is to try to read something - a poster, newspaper, book, or jar label. In dreams, the text is different every time I look at it, and sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't. This can be enough to trigger lucidity in a dream. It's a bit of a Matrix-like effect - as if the dream resolution and rendering isn't fine enough to make text consistent and readable.

ISTR in somewhere in Carlos Casteneda's Don Juan books, he suggests that to stabilise and refocus a lucid dream that's breaking up, you should look at your hands. It's worked for me once or twice.

Over the years, I've noticed a strong consistency in my dream environments, familiar dream places, buildings, & situations - but few of them closely match real-world places. It's an alternate, virtual reality; only the people are common to both dreams and reality. I sometimes discover that something I think I remember as a real happening turns out only to be possible if I had actually dreamed it - a strange realisation.

I strongly suspect much of the supernatural and paranormal woo that seems to be such a powerful lure to many people, originates in dream experiences. The natural ability to tell dream from reality is pretty effective, but the boundary is leaky...
 
I've had a recurring lucid nightmare that's happened only two times (that I remember).

I'm being chased by this thing through an auditorium. The entire experience feels completely real, even though I know it's impossible. Both dreams I remember choosing to escape through the air ducts, watching my fellow students be eaten alive. I woke up, sweating, and deathly afraid that it was going to burst out of my (open) closet and eat me.
 
I have a lot of dreams where I know I'm dreaming and all I want to do is sleep, without these stupid dreams going on. I do my best to ignore them and there's this struggle with them to see who can out wit the other. Usually it's a stalemate.
 
I've had a recurring lucid nightmare that's happened only two times (that I remember).

I'm being chased by this thing through an auditorium. The entire experience feels completely real, even though I know it's impossible. Both dreams I remember choosing to escape through the air ducts, watching my fellow students be eaten alive. I woke up, sweating, and deathly afraid that it was going to burst out of my (open) closet and eat me.

If it's a lucid dream, why does it feel "completely real" and why do you wake up afraid? Just curious, b/c that's never been my experience w/ lucid dreams, except one time when I met a character I couldn't control, which scared the hell outta me.
 
Harpyja - to turn it into a lucid dream just before you go to sleep and are indeed sleepy - try to invoke the imagery and the fear....then try and control the fear - it might not work the first couple of times......what you want is to feel the fear rising and then put it under your control ....that's the lucid aspect.

It's a balancing act
 
During periods of intentionally-induced lucid dreaming, I've had a reduction in nightmares too. And I would say, overall, that I have fewer nightmares since I've learned to lucid dream. I feel more confidence and control within my dreamspace, so nightmares don't bother me as much. Or, perhaps, it's just that because I've intentionally put myself through frightening situations in lucid dreams, that I perceive nightmares as less frightening after the fact.

Imagine you're a cop, in a dangerous district, and had to fire your gun three or four times per year. Then imagine that you went to war in Iraq and saw IUDs blow up every few days and were in fifty gunfights in one year. Upon returning home, and being a cop again, do you think you'd find the job as dangerous as you did before?

Maybe that's, figuratively, what lucid dreaming does to you. I've had a number of gruesome lucid dreams and so, now, if I have a horrific non-lucid dream, I'm less likely to describe it as a nightmare. Sometimes I tell my "bad dreams" to others and, to them, they seem like totally paralyzing, terrific nightmares, but again, to me, they're just bad or uncomfortable dreams.

Some of this could be perception.

Also, saying that you have no more nightmares is akin to saying "I have no more fear." I doubt that's true. If you want to have nightmares, focus on what you're really, really, really afraid of and try to lucid dream about it.
 
openingmind, how do you manage to be frightened by a nightmare when you know it's a dream?
 
openingmind, how do you manage to be frightened by a nightmare when you know it's a dream?

I've had that. Where things transform into something less friendly and you turn around and it scares the crap out of you. Or you turn around and there's something there that you weren't expecting. I usually hit the "reset" button and start over, but I've been caught in something like a loop where it happens over and over again and I've had to wake myself up and start fresh.
 
I was just posting about this topic in another thread. Many of my dreams are lucid or semi-lucid. I've dreamed I was naked so many times that I have learned to "make" clothes for myself whenever this happens. This is my latest lucid skill. I also tend to have a lot of dreams where it seems like I'm leaving my body, getting up, and leaving the house, and flying around, with varying degrees of success.

Of course the house never looks like my house, it's often a different house, inside and out (many times it is my childhood home), and the scenery outside won't be the scenery outside my house, so I know it's a dream. Otherwise I'd be all woo about astral projection. :p

Unfortunately, most of the times I actually stop and realize "this is all a dream" all the action stops and I sort of just stand there going "what now?" or randomly walking down the road, exploring. Kind of boring most of the time.

Oh, and I've found that if I'm dreaming something good and wake up, if I don't open my eyes and don't move, I can fall back asleep into the same dream, where it left off. And likewise if I'm having a nightmare and don't want to fall back asleep into it, I simply open my eyes, look around, and turn over.

EDIT: having actually read the original post, I think you've got something there. Maybe I can find a way to make my lucid dreams less boring by being more active.
 
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Piggy
openingmind, how do you manage to be frightened by a nightmare when you know it's a dream?
same way you can still on a plane if you have a fear of flying...
the fear is real - but you are controlling it in a lucid dream....

That's how I cured my claustrophobia as a kid...invoke the nightmare then confront it...did not always end in the result I wanted a there were moments of terror as it "got away" from my control and the fear overwhelmed....but gradually I got so I could always control it.

That period is so vivid I can recall the room and situation more than a half century later.
Powerful stuff and it empowered me to take more control even as a kid.

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I've dreamed I was naked so many times
perhaps you need to conjure up a pleasing partner since you are already ready for action..:D
sexuality, sensuality is very high in the twilight state - that should deal with the boredom :garfield:
 
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Why did I never think of that? *slaps forehead* Because I actually can conjure up someone by thinking of them, while falling asleep, for that purpose. But as I said in the related thread, those never go the way I want. :(
 
Well that is part of the magic of lucid dreaming is there is conflict of what conscious you "wants" and your subconscious invokes. Start it up and loosen the hands on the wheel a bit...put them elsewhere :blush: ;)
 
openingmind, how do you manage to be frightened by a nightmare when you know it's a dream?

I'm unsure how to answer this. I've been frightened in many lucid dreams. I've been frightened for different reasons at different times. Once I was unable to wake up from a lucid dream for what seemed like several minutes of trying -- that was scary. And, like you mentioned above, I've encountered dream characters I can't control.

I see what mean...Why would anyone be scared of a simulation? I don't know, but I know it happens all the time. Why do people scream and jump at horror movies when they know they're just a movie? Why do people get a knot in their stomach at the thought of losing a loved one when they know it's just a thought? Why do our mouths water at the mental image picture of a lemon when we know there's no lemon? Why do villains in first-person videogames strike actual fear into the player who knows he's playing a game? How can an actor cry after another actor pretends to be mad at them?

Conversely, why do some people not get scared at haunted houses?

Some appear to be able to imaginatively "accept as if" more than others. The reasons why that is might be many. A possible answer is that some people don't like the feeling of being out of control and so they don't let their imagination "run away."

It's clear that imagination is capable of directly influencing the body, but more with some than others. I suspect it's a skill that can be easily learned.

Maybe the answer in your case isn't less lucidity per se, but more accepting as if. Try having a few lucid dreams in which you act like you aren't lucid. That is, go along with whatever dream was already in progress.

A lot of times, when I attain lucidity, I'll leave whatever dreamspace I'm in and whatever dream characters, and go flying around. A few times, after attaining lucidity, I've said to myself, "I want to see where this goes."
 
Thanks Macdoc, I will try that :)

Openingmind, I haven't have any nightmares lately but the last one I remember, it was lucid and I went through the whole thing thinking "what the hell? I won't die anyway." So I was sort of lackadaisical throughout the whole dream which then made it boring.

WHY MUST MY LUCID DREAMS BE BORING? Argh.
 
I went through the whole thing thinking "what the hell? I won't die anyway."

Hmmm...Well, as stupid as that might sound, I think Make-Believe is the answer. When you played Make-Believe as a kid -- if you did, I know I did -- you were hugely emotionally invested in it. If someone was chasing you with a stick they were pretending was a knife, you ran like hell.

A lucid dream is the ultimate game of Make-Believe.
 

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