'Lost Civilisations'

anduin said:
Did you even watch the video? Why bring up Coral Castle? Both are completely different things. Here the guy is telling you how he has done it using very basic tools, things that would be available to any ancient builder. There is no need for mysteries or woo explanations, the video is self-explanatory. All you need is a healthy does of inventiveness and ingenuity, things that are inherent in many humans.

Alas, those of your ilk lack imagination and ingenuity, and therefore find mysteries at every turn.
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Mankind has always been inventive. No need for super duper alien technology. Kota must have a bad inferiority complex.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
What I don't understand is why people aren't more baffled by the incredible skill Michelangelo and his studio showed in sculpting stone. The human figures are outstanding--you can see muscles and blood vessels beneath the skin!

But again, skill like that also doesn't require "lost" advanced technology.
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Not to bust Mikey's balls, but Bernini wasn't bad...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_Proserpina

Sculpting marble with iron is rather easy. Doing it to a masterful level just takes time, or rather a lifetime.
 
Vortigern99 said:
Then you have failed at even the most basic level of research required to make an informed argument...

...

With your inability to do the most basic level of research in mind, it becomes clear why you believe the things you do.
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I didn't read each freaking page...

I looked in the table of contents and the index.
 
Vortigern99 said:
...

Q: How did the builders of Puma Puncu carve stone?
A: Probably with metal tools.
Q: Do we have any evidence for such tools in the region in the relevant period?
A: Yes.
Q. Do we have evidence that that metal was used at Puma Puncu?
A: Yes.
Q: Is this mystery solved?
A: YES.
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Q: Will this metal cut or carve the hardest stone at PP?
A: ...?
 
anduin said:
Did you even watch the video? Why bring up Coral Castle? Both are completely different things....

...
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I've seen the video you linked, and I think the guy is a genius. The 'round road' is especially inventively awesome.

A 90 lb man built the Coral Castle, using 'some' technique, that he never told anyone of. I have no doubt that he employed methods not unlike the one in your video.
 
King of the Americas said:
How else would one locate 'specific' information within a publication?
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1. Identify the general site (Tiuhanacu) rather than the specific structure (Puma Puncu) within that site.

2. Look up the site by name in the index.

3. Scroll through the pages listed in the index for the site, till you find the discussion on the specific structure.

That's what I did; it took me about a minute to find the passage in question.

If you possessed even the most basic knowledge of the site under discussion, you would have known that it's called Tiuanacu/Tiwanaku.

If you possessed the most rudimentary research skills, you would have been able to follow the above procedure and obtain the information for yourself.
 
I did some brief research on the hardness of bronze and found the following from

http://www.allaboutgemstones.com/metal_jewelry_bronze.html

In which I found the following:

Bronze can be a harder metal which has a hardness of between 5.5 to 6.0 on the Moh's scale, and a Vickers Hardness (VHN or HV) of between 60 (fully annealed) and 258 (cold worked).
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From the Wikepedia article on Bronze I found the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze

Though bronze is generally harder than wrought iron, with Vickers hardness of 60–258 vs. 30–80, the Bronze Age gave way to the Iron Age; this happened because iron was easier to find and easier to process. Bronze was still used during the Iron Age, for example officers in the Roman army had bronze swords while foot soldiers had iron, but, for many purposes, the weaker wrought iron was found to be sufficiently strong.
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I do remember reading in other places that early iron weapons and tools were NOT harder than bronze tools and weapons but their huge advantage was that they were vastly cheaper because iron was so much more common.

Wrought Iron as Vickers Hardness (VH) of about 80, working copper can increase the hardness to about 110 adding 2% tin can increase the hardness by about 50. With 10% tin you can get up to 250 VH. Aresnic will also increase hardness.

A good article is:

Iron Versus Bronze for Edge Tools and Weapons: A Metallurgical View by J. E. Rehder in Journal of Materials, Minerals and Metals, Vol. 44, #8, 1992, pp. 42-46.

Its been quite sometime since I've read it but from what I can remember its point is that iron tools and weapons were not necessary harder than Bronze tools or even, given the type of iron, copper tools. And in fact bronze could be hard enough for many purposes.
 
Very interresting Pacal, but I betcha that KOTA will suddenly say "I am using carburated diamonted steel tool and I can't do it so other could not do it with bronze tool" (argument by ignorance).
 
I found a nice link to a paper on metallurgy in precolumbian south america. The second illustration on page 20 shows a nice selection of stonecutting chisels made from the arsenical bronze alloy used in peru and bolivia during the time tiwanuku was built. They actually look a lot like various homemade stoneworking tools I've come across. Odd that they'd make chisels to cut stone if the stone was uncuttable with chisels. The book is preview only, but the neccesary pages are included in the preview.

http://books.google.com/books?id=h4UsS44ikPoC&lpg=PA23&ots=9xgxC5DheM&dq=metallurgy%20of%20arsenical%20bronze&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q=metallurgy%20of%20arsenical%20bronze&f=false
 
Aepervius said:
Very interresting Pacal, but I betcha that KOTA will suddenly say "I am using carburated diamonted steel tool and I can't do it so other could not do it with bronze tool" (argument by ignorance).
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You psychic? That sounds like a pretty accurate prediction. Of course it's a pretty good summary of the thread as a whole.
 
Andrew Wiggin said:
You psychic? That sounds like a pretty accurate prediction. Of course it's a pretty good summary of the thread as a whole.
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I tend to be an excellent psychic to predict the action of a very specific subset of people. Wanna get my prediction for DOC's thread on "testament writer telling the truth" ? I see a "sir Ramsay"....
 
Pacal said:
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Its been quite sometime since I've read it but from what I can remember its point is that iron tools and weapons were not necessary harder than Bronze tools or even, given the type of iron, copper tools. And in fact bronze could be hard enough for many purposes.
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Cool stuff thanks.
 
Andrew Wiggin said:
So there was no chapter heading in the contents specifically called 'how the stones of the puma punku were made'. Therefore space aliens.
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There was NOTHING in the table of contents or the index.

Rather than say here's a book, the information you seek is in there somewhere, why not say here's the information found on page 256.

That's usually the way citations work...

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*I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALIENS.
 
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