Loren Coleman, is he sane?

[JohnG]

Do proponents of the "Alligators in the sewers" theory ever address how these animals survive NYC winters?

 

[Wolrab]

You would think if they had an issue like this anywhere it would be somewhere warm like LA or Vegas.

If by LA, you mean Los Alamos, I could see the giant mutant ninja alligators feeding off the nuclear waste!
I was thinking of the Miami sewer system but am too lazy to check.

 

[William Parcher]

Loren Coleman is either a fool or a lying scum bag.

He earns a living with cryptozoology. He essentially sells cryptozoology in various ways. He sells books, is paid for lectures and "expert" appearances (when they pay), may take admission or donation fees at his museum, and may earn money with his blog (Cryptomundo) by way of advertisers.

He may have been paid for his appearance in the MQ "sewer gators" episode. Coleman understands his target audience (cryptofans) and gives them what they like. He even makes money from cryptozoology skeptics who would buy his books, attend lectures, watch programs like MQ, and visit his blog, etc.

Assuming he was paid for MQ, Coleman has already pocketed money before you even get the chance to say he is a fool or a liar concerning the sewer gators. If you think he is a kook because of what he says about the gators on MQ and decide to visit his blog to look for more of the kooky... he makes money based on the "site visit hits" for the advertisers.

There's no good way to know if he actually believes in all these cryptozoology things. In many instances he does little more than inform you of what others have said and done. He is like a librarian/historian of cryptozoology and has been working that entrepreneurial niche for quite a while now. He doesn't give that stuff away (talk about or let you see) for free unless he has no choice. But even when he isn't being paid for it, he is still promoting himself and the things he does get paid for.

 

[William Parcher]

Do proponents of the "Alligators in the sewers" theory ever address how these animals survive NYC winters?

There are comments in his Cryptomundo blog about the temperatures in sewers being in the 90's F.

As noted from alligator growers and authorities interviewed on the program, the darkness in the sewers is not a problem for gators and actually increases growth in these animals. Also, the temperature is routinely high (easily 95-97 degrees F with +60% humidity). Food, breeding materials, and access to other environments are not in short supply in the NY and other urban sewers.

And of course there are always these kinds of comments to address why MQ didn't find any sewer gators for their program...

I was talking to my neighbor, who worked for a company in New York City, about the Monsterquest episode. He related that he knew that the show wouldn’t find anything. He then went on to tell me that when ever a TV/Movie Company comes to film in the sewers, they send a work crew down to make sure there are no alligators before they arrive to start filming. As Mr. Coleman stated, they do not want anybody to know just what exectly is down there. He also stated that the gators stay down deep and only come up every now and then. The car and truck sounds keep them from coming too far up, but they do on occasion.

 

[JcR]

Larval Reptoids (New York Gators) are quite nasty looking
and have a bad disposition before they pupate.
The embryo stage isn't anything to write home about either.
(They don't appear anymore foul than the rest of the environment down there at this stage).
Concealed placement of the Reptoid pupae is vital.
They even trick rats into protecting this stage of the cycle.
Sometimes they go into a Diapause state if needed.
The next stage (not unlike that of the Caterpillar to butterfly or moth) they squirm free
and emerge from the Pupa, and have a voracious appetite.
They slither around and feed on the formerly protectant rats
until they mature (which takes about two weeks).
This is still the early process of the Reptilian cycle.They still need to quickly
creep up to street level and find a compliant tailor.
Madison Ave? Plenty of compliant tailors there to complete the transformation process.


OK! Now back to reality. Continue on...

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Yeah, with that article, Coleman still has no sane reason (unless he is deliberately distorting and lying) to jump to:

1) There currently is a breeding population of alligators.

2) That breeding population will soon explode in numbers and start eating people.

3) NYC knows of the breeding population of alligators in its sewers and secretly covers it up, despite the fact that NYC gave MonsterQuest persmission to search the sewers, helped them search the sewers with equipment, and interview employees that have worked in the sewers for years.

Agreed. Point 3 is a classic example of MonsterQuest blatantly contradicting itself. And even if that former official's story is true, it would mean that the gators were all exterminated and that NY didn't try to cover up the release of the story. Then again, Coleman almost certainly knows that the cryptozoology crowd buys into the idea that nothing is ever really extinct.

Coleman's antics have been well-documented in the threads "Cryptomundo censors JREF members participation" and "How long before this becomes a bigfoot sighting?"

Oh, and Rob008's comment sounds like a classic example of someone repeating an urban legend.

 

[TraneWreck]

Or??

remember the logical meaning of the disjunctive: one or the other or both. I choose the final meaning for our gator-obsessed friend.

 

[dafydd]

Sylvia Browne, Uri Geller, Jack Chick, the ID folks, the UFOhunters guys...
Are they sane?[/QUOTE

They certainly are rich.

 

[WildBackdunesMan]

He earns a living with cryptozoology. He essentially sells cryptozoology in various ways. He sells books, is paid for lectures and "expert" appearances (when they pay), may take admission or donation fees at his museum, and may earn money with his blog (Cryptomundo) by way of advertisers.

He may have been paid for his appearance in the MQ "sewer gators" episode. Coleman understands his target audience (cryptofans) and gives them what they like. He even makes money from cryptozoology skeptics who would buy his books, attend lectures, watch programs like MQ, and visit his blog, etc.

Assuming he was paid for MQ, Coleman has already pocketed money before you even get the chance to say he is a fool or a liar concerning the sewer gators. If you think he is a kook because of what he says about the gators on MQ and decide to visit his blog to look for more of the kooky... he makes money based on the "site visit hits" for the advertisers.

There's no good way to know if he actually believes in all these cryptozoology things. In many instances he does little more than inform you of what others have said and done. He is like a librarian/historian of cryptozoology and has been working that entrepreneurial niche for quite a while now. He doesn't give that stuff away (talk about or let you see) for free unless he has no choice. But even when he isn't being paid for it, he is still promoting himself and the things he does get paid for.

He did say most of those statements matter of factly though. So either he is insane (or has horrible logical and reasoning skills) or he is straight up lying for $.

 

[godless dave]

So let me get this straight: they can send a work crew down to scare all the gators away before anyone with a camera goes down there, but they can't send a crew down to kill them all.

Must be a union rule.

 

[GT/CS]

So let me get this straight: they can send a work crew down to scare all the gators away before anyone with a camera goes down there, but they can't send a crew down to kill them all.

Must be a union rule.

The mob won't let them get rid of the 'gators, for obvious reasons.

 

[JcR]

I am trying to remember an older show, or maybe it was a news coverage about Gators in the New York sewer systems. Too long ago I guess. Seems to me that the many employees that have to work in this system would have some issues with co-inhabitant Gators.
Well maybe New Yorkers should look twice while frequenting the Johnny. Keep that lid closed please.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

I am trying to remember an older show, or maybe it was a news coverage about Gators in the New York sewer systems.

Was that the one where a sewer worker said he could take the camera crew to an area where they could find gators and then led them to a toy store? That was absolutely priceless.

 

[JcR]

Was that the one where a sewer worker said he could take the camera crew to an area where they could find gators and then led them to a toy store? That was absolutely priceless.

I would like to see that one. I vaguely remember this show. Seems to me they interviewed quite a few New York sewer workers. Maybe it wasn't focused on Gators, but was mentioned in the show.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

I would like to see that one. I vaguely remember this show. Seems to me they interviewed quite a few New York sewer workers. Maybe it wasn't focused on Gators, but was mentioned in the show.

I'm not exactly sure about the program I saw, but I think it was a segment in a network news program from the late 80's or early 90's.

 

[JcR]

I'm not exactly sure about the program I saw, but I think it was a segment in a network news program from the late 80's or early 90's.

Kinda helps ring a bell in my head. About the same time frame.
Could have been some nova show, or something similar to that. since I watched
shows like that back then.

 

[Drewbot]

NYC introduced gators to the sewers to try and control the GIANT RAT problem they have there. And I don't mean "GIANT NORMAL SIZED RAT PROBLEM", I mean: "Normal-GIANT-SIZED RAT PROBLEM"

 

[kitakaze]

Larval Reptoids (New York Gators) are quite nasty looking and have a bad disposition before they pupate. The embryo stage isn't anything to write home about either.

While Infiltrators (Bigfoot) are identified throughout New York state, the urban sprawl of NYC offers a unique environment for phase merge genetic manipulant experiments. In addition to this is the wide range of genetic structures available for sampling within the relatively focused confines of Manhattan. The Command Class (Reptoids), while being designed for a more aggressive and intelligent behavioural matrix, does not excel in the same areas of physical strength and stealth capabilities of the Infiltrators (Bigfoot) class.

Efforts to remedy these shortcomings and simulataneously address the pronounced need for subterranean environment engineered tunnel fighters in various offworld conflicts was made a priority in the latter part of the twentieth century. Initial results showed promise but complications arose due to the inherent dietary proclivities manifested in these particular manipulants...

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Okay, so I finally got around to watching the alligators in the sewer episode:

-I hate how they flashed a bunch of newspaper articles to support the idea of alligators living in New York, but didn't discuss the cases. I couldn't help but notice that one article detailed an alligator in a yard and that another one was actually in New Jersey. I wonder if any of the articles revealed the origins of the gators or if the alligator's presence was actually confirmed (I've heard of people mistaking sturgeons for alligators due to their knobby backs). It's a shame that all the filler material about known alligators took up time that could have been devoted to this.

-Interesting, so the guy who reported about seeing and killing alligators in the sewers could have been fibbing to keep people out of sewers. That seems possible (although the write-up on Wikipedia makes it sound like the problem was thoroughly taken care of, which would take away from the scare factor). Also, notice how "Monster Quest" left out the reference to the alleged alligators being two feet long at the maximum.

-Something tells me whoever gave "Monster Quest" permission to go into the sewers knew about the "urban explorer" being involved.

-New York is suppressing evidence due to fear of panic over alligators in sewers? Because we all know how panicked people are in Florida, where alligators are known and very common...

-Okay Coleman, how do you know about people making reports and being silenced if they were silenced? Furthermore, how do you know that the letters you're being sent are people trying to play a joke on you?

-Although I suspect that the alleged museum displaying a dead sewer alligator never existed (seeing as how it's conveniently closed and no hard evidence for its existence was provided), I'll provide some explanations for such an exhibit to appear in one: 1) A stuffed alligator was once found in the sewers, 2) It's a reference to the alligator found in the 1930's, or 3) It's a joke, not unlike like this centaur.

After all, why the hell would they put evidence of something they're trying to cover up in a museum that notes things they've found in the sewers?

-I wonder if that temperature reading was effected by heat given off from the mobile camera unit and by the small size of the pipe. It's a shame they didn't show any other readings taken in the other pipes that were investigated.

-Did anyone else notice that they never followed up on the teaser footage they showed prior to each commercial break? Like the former sewer worker making a reference to not wanting to get boxed into a dead end by something or one of the people exploring the sewers falling and yelling "watch out!"

-Finding a salamander in the sewers of New York isn't all that unusual. Just do an internet search for "+ salamander + new york" to see how common they are to the area. Then you just add a rainstorm and the possibility of salamanders showing up in the sewers rises dramatically.

-While reading this Wikipedia article, a certain quote caught my eye:

"In Florida, alligators face ambient temperature patterns unlike elsewhere in their range. The consistently high temperatures lead to increased metabolic cost."

I wonder how this would effect hypothetical sewer gators?

 

[WildBackdunesMan]

Perhaps the History Channel realized that Loren Coleman is insane...they edited out Coleman claiming that the sewer alligator populations might start eating humans at the end of last nights re-airing of the episode. Either that ot they needed to shorten it up by 3 seconds.

Another thing of note, insane Coleman also thinks that these alligators are in a lot of metro sewers across the country and that they could start eating humans in any big city. Panic and visit his website please $$$!