Lord Language Resurrection.

[Complexity]

This whole thread reeks of primordial bestiality

I'd like to think that that's my special contribution.

The OP writer just doesn't strike me as that kind of guy.

 

[six7s]

I reckon it's most likely your socks

 

[Complexity]

Hey, did Bago (and how apt that nick proved to be) ever get that ventriloquism act worked out?

He swore he was going to make it speak with Alan Turing's voice.

Actually, I don't think he knows that Alan Turing had an interesting stutter and manner of speaking, I'll be curious how he'll get the sock-and-jr to do that...

The remarkable Derek Jacobi portraying Alan Turing - The ideas discussed are right-on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV67Sj2jkVg

 

[Jackalgirl]

Hey, did Bago (and how apt that nick proved to be) ever get that ventriloquism act worked out?

He swore he was going to make it speak with Alan Turing's voice.

Actually, I don't think he knows that Alan Turing had an interesting stutter and manner of speaking, I'll be curious how he'll get the sock-and-jr to do that...

The remarkable Derek Jacobi portraying Alan Turing - The ideas discussed are right-on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV67Sj2jkVg

Oooo, thanks for that -- I'm currently (slowly) chewing my way through Douglas Hofstaedter's article on "Metafont" and he goes into great depth about Goedel. It was great to have it (Goedel's theorem) explained in another way.

And it was weird. It was like seeing Claudius dressed up in a suit talking about mathematics. ; )

 

[Complexity]

Oooo, thanks for that -- I'm currently (slowly) chewing my way through Douglas Hofstaedter's article on "Metafont" and he goes into great depth about Goedel. It was great to have it (Goedel's theorem) explained in another way.

And it was weird. It was like seeing Claudius dressed up in a suit talking about mathematics. ; )

I just put up a more complete post about Alan Turing in Math and Science.

It contains three links: The one from a few posts up, a second to another clip from the same film, and a third dealing with Alan Turing's death.

Hofstaedter's stuff is always good - have fun.

 

[Nationalcosmopolitan]

I have not, in fact, read the New Testament, or even the Old Testament, from start to finish, though I did grow up (partially) Catholic*. However, /you/ are the one who has made the claim that Jesus hated a particular language. Would you please be so kind as to cite chapter and verse, and perhaps include a quote? New Testament or Old, I don't mind. I'm certainly willing to admit that I'm totally wrong on this point, particularly because I don't have the Bible (or Torah, or Qu'ran**) memorized (I'm not a JIC), but I will require a quotation that I can verify.

Matthew 15
22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."

23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."

24He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

25The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.

26He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
27"Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."

28Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

I strongly believe that the same hate and scorn had Christ to every other nation, their religious, language and culture including Aramaic language except HIS favorite Holy Language of Holy Book that had been resurrected with resurrection of Israel State 60 years ago as a language of Israel People.

You're quite right that no one can know history completely and objectively (especially since the recording of it is usually fairly subjective). However, one can at least know SOMETHING solid about what one is talking about -- such as, for example, the history and drift and development of the various forms of language that make up Hebrew or -- perhaps even more critically -- having a basic understanding of linguistics when talking about language. Linguistics is a branch of Cultural Anthropology and is, in fact, a very well-studied subject.

http://www.krysstal.com/writing_evolution.html
This drawing will proof you that the basic of most world Alphabets is the Phoenician Alphabet.
But so called Phoenician Alphabet is exactly the same as Holy Book Alphabet!
Just click on drawing and you will see it.

One last question -- and it's been asked before, but you haven't really answered it: you DO know that you're in a skeptics' forum, right? What response did you expect from the people here?

I am a very skeptical person from my childhood too.
But I am mechanical handling machines designer.
There is a rule in our profession – if you skeptical about something you have propose something better and effective.
I had invented the global social system more effective and more advanced than EU.

I respect that forum people will take part in creative developing of this idea.

By the way why JCM?
Why not JCMB?
Buddhism is one of the four wold religious and has to take its place in a common culture code of Trans cultural future man in multicultural future Global World that I had desined.

 

[Nationalcosmopolitan]

Appeal to popularity.

An assertion is either true or not true, regardless of how many people believe it.

To make effective decisions about Global Social democratic world we have to appeal to popularity of all national confession people.

And where does it say that Jesus hated languages other than Hebrew?

Jesus taught to hate everything that opposes the man’s being safe in future life.
To cut eye if it looks sexually at a woman, to cut hand if it do something bad.
HE hates and scorn every nation except Jews and of course there languages HE hated too.
Especially the Aramaic Language – the language of Persian Empire that had rejected to return independence to Judeo and license to HIS nation to speak Hebrew natively.
E - M 15 –22-28

Except that the Torah wasn't written in Hebrew.

2/3 world wide people believe that Torah was writen on Hebrew and that Hebrew is a Holly language.
What is your versia?

But it's entirely possible to only look at the data that supports one's own preferred interpretation. A good historian will look at all relevant documents and balance their relative merits before coming to any conclusion.

Believe me I had read Joseph Flavor, Platoon, Senko, Gerodot, Holy books of 4 world religious before I got my one point of view on World Civilization Trend.
I also was the evidence and partner in collapse of Soviet Empire.

Except that there are 5th and 6th generation people that still speak their native tongues, and celebrate their native cultures.

It is a very little percent this sort of USA citizens.
So they can’t influence on situation.

Wow, everyone in the EU knows English?? I suppose you have evidence to support this assertion.

May be you are right in this point and I am not.
There is a strong opposition in many countries of United Europe to study English.
People are afraid that English has a strongest trend to become a single language of Global pragmatic world, and all other national languages will simply dead as absolutely needless.
My national – Holy Resurrected Language bilingual model reliably safe every language from such negative perspectives of real Globalization.
Holy Language was died.
He knows what it means.
That why he does not want any national language to be on his place – being dead for 2700 years.

 

[Jackalgirl]

Matthew 15
22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."

23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."

24He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

25The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.

26He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
27"Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."

28Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

I strongly believe that the same hate and scorn had Christ to every other nation, their religious, language and culture including Aramaic language except HIS favorite Holy Language of Holy Book that had been resurrected with resurrection of Israel State 60 years ago as a language of Israel People.

You're taking this passage in which Jesus said "I'm here for the Jews", and then allowed this non-Jew to convince him that she was worth helping, and extending it to mean that Jesus must have hated and had scorn for everyone and everything that wasn't Jewish. I see your point, though I think this is a bit of a stretch. And, ultimately, he did help her (if he had truly hated non-Jews, I doubt that anything she'd have said would have convinced him). My husband, btw, who is evangelical Christian, tells me that his read of this passage is that Jesus ultimately says that he is here for everyone, not just the Jews. So now we have two completely contradictory readings of the same passage. I refer you to my earlier statement about data-mining (to wit, finding the meaning in a passage that you want to find, one that supports your own beliefs).

http://www.krysstal.com/writing_evolution.html
This drawing will proof you that the basic of most world Alphabets is the Phoenician Alphabet.
But so called Phoenician Alphabet is exactly the same as Holy Book Alphabet!
Just click on drawing and you will see it.

I don't see how your link is a proof of anything. It is a chart that shows the development of written forms of language and their relationships to one another. I'll note, also, that Wikipedia (that bastion of accuracy, I know) disagrees with it, in that Wikipedia states that the Phonecian alphabet was derived from Egyptian, whereas your chart seems to claim that Phonecian is not related to Egyptian at all; rather, is a descendent of Cuneiform.

Phonecian is important in that it is the first Western alphabet, in the sense of a set of symbols each of which represents a single consonant or vowel.

Understand, however, that it was not the first written language to feature the idea of symbols representing sounds instead of specific ideas; in Egyptian, for example, there are three ways to read a hieroglyph: there's (usually) a phonetic reading (uniliteral, biliteral, and there are some triliterals), a ideographic reading (i.e., the hieroglyph for a pot means "pot"), and there's a determinative reading (which is used to differentiate between two words that sound the same; sort of like a radical in kanji & Chinese ideographic writing).

So Phonecian may have been the first true Western alphabet, but it did not spring out of nothingness full-formed. It owes its existence to earlier forms of writing. You can't just stop at Phonecian and say "this proves my hypothesis!". It goes back farther.

Besides, I still completely and utterly fail to understand how Phonecian being the first true Western alphabet, and it having the same set of sounds as Hebrew (duh, they're related), in any way proves that God wants Hebrew to become the JIC auxiliary language.

I am a very skeptical person from my childhood too.
But I am mechanical handling machines designer.
There is a rule in our profession – if you skeptical about something you have propose something better and effective.
I had invented the global social system more effective and more advanced than EU.

I'm not sure what you're saying when you say that this "global social system [is] more effective and more advanced than EU". First off, the European Union isn't a global social system. Secondly, as far as I understand, you haven't talked about a "global social system"; rather, you're just talking about using Hebrew as an auxiliary (working) language among JICs (and, by extension, among anyone wanting to do business with JICs). (That's a far cry from a system.)

Now, if you're saying that it would be much more effective if there were ONE official working language in the EU (or the United Nations, for that matter), I certainly agree. To my knowledge, the EU's charter states that ALL languages of member countries are official working languages (which means that all official documents must be translated into all member countries' languages). This is expensive, and if you don't have a shared common language (like bad English), you have to pay for a translator who might not be translating well. Honestly, I'm 100% with you on this.

However, I don't think that Hebrew is a good idea. As I've stated before, it's a national language with a considerable amount of religious, historical, and cultural baggage. It's also a natural language, which means that it is (like all natural languages) complicated and hard to learn, especially if you aren't able to devote several months to living in an immersion environment to do it.

I especially think that your assertion that this is what God wants is absolutely going to kill the whole idea dead, dead, dead, dead.

Which is why I am a supporter of Esperanto. It's an artificial language created by a man named Ludovik Lazar Zamenhof. It has 16 rules of grammar, but it is a complete language, in the sense that you can express yourself completely in it*, as opposed to being hamstrung as you would be, for example, with Basic English, and the regularization of the language makes it incredibly easy to learn, even for people whose languages aren't based in the Western languages that formed the source for Esperanto. Because it's so easy to learn, /all/ people can come up to speed quickly, rather than spending 12 years of their life struggling to learn how to be a fourth-rate speaker and always be under the linguistic heel of native speakers. Because it's artificial, it has no cultural or historical baggage. If it has ideological baggage, it's that the Esperanto movement is tied to a yearning for world peace.

I am practical, however. I realize that no language will become an actual working global language unless there is a real (and largely economic) pressure for it to be so. Hence the rise of (bad) English as a working global language. It is practical for us to have a common language for shared global commerce, and because of the primacy of English-speaking companies, consumers (and English-language-based technology), it is (bad) English.

You offer nothing regarding Hebrew except that you think that God wants it to be so. Religion is a famously emotional topic among people, and is not a very good way to find common ground.

I respect that forum people will take part in creative developing of this idea.

Not likely, because your idea is based in (reeks of) religious dogma. If you want the body of this Forum to support it, you're going to have to come up with a practical, real-world basis for your idea. If you can't, you might want to try finding a religious forum and trying your hand there.

By the way why JCM?
Why not JCMB?
Buddhism is one of the four wold religious and has to take its place in a common culture code of Trans cultural future man in multicultural future Global World that I had desined.

You were originally tying all of this into the three Abrahamic religions (that is, the three revealed religions with their basis in Abrahamic monotheism, each of which are centered around a text said to be divinely inspired). Buddhism doesn't fit in with this mold, and I think they're even less likely to care about the lingustic history of Hebrew or to accept the mythologies of Christianity, Islam, or Judiasm as a reason to use Hebrew as a working language.

* This is something of a lie. If you really get down to it, I'm not sure it's possible to be completely expressive in any language other than your own cultural language -- all languages have unique features that are profoundly tied into their cultures. I mean, yes, you can express yourself completely and be understood, but what I mean is that there are subtle nuances that lend color and beauty to languages that are unique from language to language. Esperanto has no means to express the social relationship between listener and speaker as profoundly and succinctly as, say, Japanese does. But for the purpose of commerce and understanding, I think you can get by -- as long as you have a working knowledge of the culture of the person with whom you are speaking.

 

[bruto]

I am a very skeptical person from my childhood too.
But I am mechanical handling machines designer.
There is a rule in our profession – if you skeptical about something you have propose something better and effective.

I think that in the realm of ideas that is a dangerously foolish notion. Nonsense is nonsense whether or not you know the great answers to life, and error can be identified in its own right. You can evaluate something without being able to invent it, and you can criticize something without being able to create it yourself. Do you really never comment on any movies, unless you can produce a movie yourself? Books? Political policies? Wars? Religions? "Come up with something better" is a standard cop-out for people who have stupidly simple answers to complex questions, when the questions are too complex to answer simply, and alternative answers can simply be rejected as foolishly as the original answer was promoted; If you have difficulty distancing yourself from your own ideas, you can reference any thread started by "Wogoga" for classic examples of this.

Even in the field of machine design, I think you're off base. Of course, if you have a machine that works, and say "I can do this better," you'd best prove it, but that is not a very good example of skepticism. Are you really saying that if you were presented with a machine with a design flaw that you suspected would destroy the objects it handles, or that would electrocute its operator, you would stay silent about your doubts unless you were first able to design the machine better? I don't know about you, but I'd say "Wait a minute! Don't push that button!"

 

[Alareth]

Best one ever.

I'v always been fond of this one.

 

[Nationalcosmopolitan]

My husband, btw, who is evangelical Christian, tells me that his read of this passage is that Jesus ultimately says that he is here for everyone, not just the Jews.

There are many evangelicals Christians in Israel.
They are in a very good relation sheep with Israel Jews.
Many of them give to there children to know Hebrew as native one together with national language.
Most of them are the citizens of USA, Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Germany, and England.
Why other Christian’s confessions don’t go the same way by forming Hebrew Resurrected – national language bilinguals from their children – is a great secret for my mind.

So now we have two completely contradictory readings of the same passage. I refer you to my earlier statement about data-mining (to wit, finding the meaning in a passage that you want to find, one that supports your own beliefs).

The 99.999….% of information that I read is oppose and contradict with one of the main parts of my idea – “NATIVELY GIVEN GOD HOLY RESURRECTED LANGUAGE TO EVERY WORLD CHILD TOGETHER WITH HIS MOTHER AND FATHER ONES”.
And only very few of information mostly from the Holy books of 4 world religious work for supporting of this idea.

I don't see how your link is a proof of anything. It is a chart that shows the development of written forms of language and their relationships to one another. I'll note, also, that Wikipedia (that bastion of accuracy, I know) disagrees with it, in that Wikipedia states that the Phonecian alphabet was derived from Egyptian, whereas your chart seems to claim that Phonecian is not related to Egyptian at all; rather, is a descendent of Cuneiform.

History
When the Phoenician alphabet was first uncovered in the 19th century, its origins were unknown. Scholars at first believed that the script was a direct variation of Egyptian hieroglyphs.[1] This idea was especially popular due to the recent decipherment of hieroglyphs. However, no scholars could find any link between the two writing systems. Certain scholars hypothesized ties with Hieratic, Cuneiform, or even an independent creation, perhaps inspired by some other writing system. The theories of independent creation ranged from the idea of a single man conceiving it to the Hyksos people forming it from corrupt Egyptian.

It is exactly what I am talking about.
Do not forget that the Phoenician alphabet and Holy language alphabet of Torah are absolutely the same things.

So Phonecian may have been the first true Western alphabet, but it did not spring out of nothingness full-formed. It owes its existence to earlier forms of writing. You can't just stop at Phonecian and say "this proves my hypothesis!". It goes back farther.

Besides, I still completely and utterly fail to understand how Phonecian being the first true Western alphabet, and it having the same set of sounds as Hebrew (duh, they're related), in any way proves that God wants Hebrew to become the JIC auxiliary language.

The alphabet of three world religious Holy Book is a single common root of all western alphabets and now the Holy language has Resurrected!
What else has to be happen to begin to study children this Holy Alphabet and this Holy Resurrected Language that is really the basis root and fundamental language of all western languages!

I'm not sure what you're saying when you say that this "global social system [is] more effective and more advanced than EU". First off, the European Union isn't a global social system. Secondly, as far as I understand, you haven't talked about a "global social system"; rather, you're just talking about using Hebrew as an auxiliary (working) language among JICs (and, by extension, among anyone wanting to do business with JICs). (That's a far cry from a system.)

Bilingual person is the person who natively and unmixable use his two native languages.
This model is a symbolic of great Principe of solving many of Global Problems -
to compete with out mixing the main “incompatible” essences, entities and institutes.

4 world religious, national and Holy Language, Cosmopolitans and nationalistic life styles, Libertines and Socialistic ideologies and Symmetrically job and free weeks life style – the main unmixable symmetrical entities of future Global Multicultural world of Trans cultural free persons.

And of course lot voting democracy of every brunch of power on local, federal and global levels of power.

There are some more points in this I hope we can discuss further.
Remember – I am a good social designer and I am responsible for every point.
It never had happen that my designers were unworkable.

Not likely, because your idea is based in (reeks of) religious dogma. If you want the body of this Forum to support it, you're going to have to come up with a practical, real-world basis for your idea. If you can't, you might want to try finding a religious forum and trying your hand there.

I was with my ideas in religious forums of Jews, Christians, Muslims and Buddhist.
It was a very fruitful discussion but to some of those guise I am Antichrist, Self Hated Jew, Satan.
The most tolerant to me were Buddhists.

You were originally tying all of this into the three Abrahamic religions (that is, the three revealed religions with their basis in Abrahamic monotheism, each of which are centered around a text said to be divinely inspired). Buddhism doesn't fit in with this mold, and I think they're even less likely to care about the lingustic history of Hebrew or to accept the mythologies of Christianity, Islam, or Judiasm as a reason to use Hebrew as a working language.

It is the matter of fact that the most Buddhists of Southeast Asia are bi religious persons today.
The most of them goes usually to Protestant Church too.
This fact gives me a hope that Buddhist will teach there children the Resurrected Holy Language too.

This is something of a lie. If you really get down to it, I'm not sure it's possible to be completely expressive in any language other than your own cultural language -- all languages have unique features that are profoundly tied into their cultures. I mean, yes, you can express yourself completely and be understood, but what I mean is that there are subtle nuances that lend color and beauty to languages that are unique from language to language.

You are absolutely right.
It means that all set of needful fore his spirit languages we have give to the child till the age of 13 – 18.
In ideal it can be mother and father national languages, the language of residence state and the Holly Resurrected language.
I live in Israel and I see how easy and natively every child knows Hebrew, the languages of his parents and former residence state and English.
Just one thing – the child has to live in multilingual environment.

Esperanto has no means to express the social relationship between listener and speaker as profoundly and succinctly as, say, Japanese does. But for the purpose of commerce and understanding, I think you can get by -- as long as you have a working knowledge of the culture of the person with whom you are speaking.

Hebrew has the same characteristics as Esperanto.
It is easy to learn.
It is by one person created artifact and resurrected by God at the same time language.
As Esperanto it can be absolutely free from emotion but it can be full of emotion most than all other languages because it is a Holy Language.

 

[wollery]

There are many evangelicals Christians in Israel.
They are in a very good relation sheep with Israel Jews.
Many of them give to there children to know Hebrew as native one together with national language.
Most of them are the citizens of USA, Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Germany, and England.
Why other Christian’s confessions don’t go the same way by forming Hebrew Resurrected – national language bilinguals from their children – is a great secret for my mind.

When you live in a foreign country it would be kind of stupid not to learn the local language. I'm learning Chinese, because I live in China. If I lived in Spain I'd learn Spanish. If you don't you'll have a hard time doing fairly simple things, like shopping, eating out, etc.

It's especially important if you live in a country where the written language uses different characters than your mother tongue. And the children have to go to school, so learning the local language is a fairly natural thing for them to do.

 

[Jackalgirl]

There are many evangelicals Christians in Israel.
They are in a very good relation sheep with Israel Jews.
Many of them give to there children to know Hebrew as native one together with national language.
Most of them are the citizens of USA, Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Germany, and England.
Why other Christian’s confessions don’t go the same way by forming Hebrew Resurrected – national language bilinguals from their children – is a great secret for my mind.

You make my point for me. People (of any religion) in Israel have a pressing economic need to learn Hebrew -- it is the country's national and official language, and if you really want to get by in Israel, you need to know Hebrew.

People not in Israel do not have a pressing economic need to learn Hebrew. They either learn it because it's part of their religion, or because they like languages (in general, or Hebrew in particular).

"Because God wants you do" is not a pressing economic need. And I find that people will generally believe that God wants them to do what they're already doing, or something they want to do. So they'll read into the texts in such a way as to justify that.

The 99.999….% of information that I read is oppose and contradict with one of the main parts of my idea – “NATIVELY GIVEN GOD HOLY RESURRECTED LANGUAGE TO EVERY WORLD CHILD TOGETHER WITH HIS MOTHER AND FATHER ONES”.
And only very few of information mostly from the Holy books of 4 world religious work for supporting of this idea.

Okay. Now you're saying that the Bible do not support your contention that God wants JICs (and, well, now Buddhists, apparently) to learn Hebrew.

It is exactly what I am talking about.
Do not forget that the Phoenician alphabet and Holy language alphabet of Torah are absolutely the same things.

1) Okay, let me see if I can understand this. You think that because Hebrew is the first really successfully reconstituted "dead" language that this proves that God wants everyone to speak it. Is that close?

2) The actual symbols of Phonecian and Hebrew are not the same at all, and (as far as I know, someone please correct me if I'm wrong) the Torah was not written in Phonecian. The sounds represented by both the Phonecian and Hebrew alphabets are the same.

I don't understand why Phonecian being the first single-sound phonetic alphabet, and sharing those sounds with Hebrew, means that Hebrew is God's ordained JIC (etc.) auxiliary language.

The alphabet of three world religious Holy Book is a single common root of all western alphabets and now the Holy language has Resurrected!

Holy Books. There isn't just one. The Jews have the Torah, whose five books make up some -- but definitely not all -- of the Christian Bible (which comes in a number of sometimes very different versions) and Islam has the Qu'ran.

The Qu'ran wasn't written in Hebrew. It was written in Arabic. The Arabic alphabet developed from Phonecian through Aramaic through Nabatean and into Arabic (according to Wikipedia, that is), but does not share the same set of sounds with Phonecian and Hebrew.

What else has to be happen to begin to study children this Holy Alphabet and this Holy Resurrected Language that is really the basis root and fundamental language of all western languages!

No. Neither Hebrew nor Phonecian are the basis for "all western languages". Semitic languages are all related, and are a sub-grouping of the major language family, the Afro-Asiatic language family. Other Western languages are not Semitic; the majority of European languages, for example, belong to the Into-European language family, while a smaller number belong to the Uralic, American Indian, Na Dene, and Eskimo-Aleut families (check out the Ethnologue link on Wikipedia for maps and references).

In theory, all of these languages had their origin in some protolanguage, but that language was neither Phonecian nor was it Hebrew.

There are some more points in this I hope we can discuss further.
Remember – I am a good social designer and I am responsible for every point.
It never had happen that my designers were unworkable.

I already told you why your plan is unworkable.

I was with my ideas in religious forums of Jews, Christians, Muslims and Buddhist.
It was a very fruitful discussion but to some of those guise I am Antichrist, Self Hated Jew, Satan.
The most tolerant to me were Buddhists.

I find that Buddhists tend to be pretty tolerant, yes. But you still haven't explained why they should be convinced by Jewish, Christian, or Muslim mythology.

It is the matter of fact that the most Buddhists of Southeast Asia are bi religious persons today.
The most of them goes usually to Protestant Church too.

First time I've heard this (though that doesn't really mean anything). What's your source for this, and what do you mean specifically by "most"? According to Wikipedia (insert obligatory grain of salt, I know, I know, I'm lazy), there are 568,300,000 in Southeast Asia (link). Look at that link and you'll see that in most countries, Protestantism in any form most often follows quite a far bit behind Roman Catholicism.

This fact gives me a hope that Buddhist will teach there children the Resurrected Holy Language too.

I already explained why this is unlikely. There's no pressing economic need to do so.

You are absolutely right.
It means that all set of needful fore his spirit languages we have give to the child till the age of 13 – 18.
I ideal it can be mother and father national languages, the language of residence state and the Holly Resurrected language.
I live in Israel and I see how easy and natively every child knows Hebrew, the language of his parents and English.
Just one thing – the child has to live in multilingual environment.

Did you miss my explanation as to why this is not going to work? In Israel, children know Hebrew because it is the national language and the language of their parents. In the rest of the world, it is not. Why do the children of Israel know English?

Because there is a pressing economic need to do so. You need to know at least some English to be successful (well, to be rich).

Hebrew has the same characteristics as Esperanto.
It is easy to learn.

I'm sorry, but what you've just said is: "I don't know anything about Esperanto".

Every language is easy to learn...provided that you grow up surrounded by people speaking that language, raised by people who speak that language, and need to speak that language yourself in order to participate in the society. Heck, Cantonese is a snap...for Chinese kids growing up with Cantonese-speaking parents in a Cantonese-speaking part of China. For me? Forget it. And I scored 149 on the DLAB*.

Hebrew, like any other natural language, is complicated for people who did not grow up speaking it.

There is no reason for people to learn Hebrew unless:

1) They grow up in, or are wanting to live in, or are wanting to do business with, or have conversations with people in, Israel
2) They want to read & study and discuss the Torah in its current, modern form
3) They are linguists or are otherwise interested in Hebrew.

You saying that "God wants you to" is not a compelling argument. Oh, it might be to a few fervid followers, but the majority of the world is not going to pay you any attention, no matter how hard you try to engineer the change. Unless you can swing it so that Israel becomes a world power so major that the world has to learn Hebrew to do business with it.

Like English.

* Defense Language Aptitude Battery. It's a test given by the US Military to test for language aptitude. My score is pretty high; the highest score they look for (for people who will serve Embassy duty) is 120. I'm not bragging; I'm just trying to convey that I am very good at languages, and learning any national language is still very hard work for me. No national language is "easy to learn" (though some are easier than others).

 

[Nationalcosmopolitan]

I think that in the realm of ideas that is a dangerously foolish notion. Nonsense is nonsense whether or not you know the great answers to life, and error can be identified in its own right. You can evaluate something without being able to invent it, and you can criticize something without being able to create it yourself. Do you really never comment on any movies, unless you can produce a movie yourself? Books? Political policies? Wars? Religions? "Come up with something better" is a standard cop-out for people who have stupidly simple answers to complex questions, when the questions are too complex to answer simply, and alternative answers can simply be rejected as foolishly as the original answer was promoted; If you have difficulty distancing yourself from your own ideas, you can reference any thread started by "Wogoga" for classic examples of this.

I agree with you.
I am a social inventor in this thread.
Forum members have right to evaluate the main ideas of it.

But there is one thing that we can name as a running from freedom trend.
What it means?

For example 100 people were in a soviet prison 5 years.
In the same day they got freedom and 99 are very happy about this fact and ready to go home.
But one stupid man does not want freedom and wants to stay in prison.
If to give to these 100 people 10 years of prison – 20 men want to stay in prison in the end of time.
If to give to these people 25 years of soviet prison – 99 of them want to stay in prison in the end of the time.
And there is only one “stupid” man that wants to reach freedom very much.

My idea is idea of this one that wants to take you from your social prison and give a really spirit and intellectual freedom.
I simply had opened the door of your prison life style but you don’t want to get really freedom.

So my main task now is to invent something to these 99 from 100 people that try to run from open to freedom door of there current life style prison.

 

[Jackalgirl]

I
My idea is idea of this one that wants to take you from your social prison and give a really spirit and intellectual freedom.
I simply had opened the door of your prison life style but you don’t want to get really freedom.

I don't see how learning Hebrew is going to give us spiritual and intellectual freedom. It's a national language. Like all national languages, it has unique characteristics and also linguistic limitations.

You make the argument that God wants it to be so, but don't really provide many arguments for that.

You make the argument that Hebrew is the language that is the basis for all other languages. No, wait, that's Phonecian (and, of course, Phonecian isn't the basis for all other languages, Western or otherwise, but anyway).

But we're not all supposed to learn Phonecian, we're all supposed to learn Hebrew.

Because the Torah was written in Hebrew, and the Bible encompasses the same five books. And even though Muslims believe that the Torah (as Jews know it) is a corruption of the original relevation, enough of their writing is borrowed from the Torah that Hebrew is the commonality between the three. And the Hebrew alphabet has the same sounds as Phonecian. So we should all learn Hebrew.

Even the Buddhists. Who don't have anything to do with Judaism or Christianity or Islam, and whose languages are not related to Phonecian. Because they're one of the largest religions on the planet, so naturally they should learn Hebrew.

What?

Now you're in essence claiming that people who do not know Hebrew are not spiritually or intellectually free.

This does not make sense. And is more than a little patronizing.

 

[bruto]

If God wants us to speak a specific language, why not Aramaic?

It's a very strange idea of freedom that would have us
learn a single language to please God, rather than the rather obvious notion that God, who ought to be able to understand anything and everything without strain, would hear us in whatever form suits us. What kind of stupid passive-aggressive, redneck god would care what language his people use when they pray, praise and worship him?

 

[slingblade]

My late mother-in-law (2nd marriage) had a fit when she found out I'd been sterilized after my last son was born. I tried to explain to her that my first husband was abusive, and I tended to get pregnant even on birth control. "Fertile Myrtle," that was me.

She said I had thwarted god's will by preventing him giving me more kids.

I told her that if he could make Mary have a baby, he could surely do the same for me, if it really was his will I had more kids with that creep.

So, I'll say the same thing here:

If your god wants me to speak another language, he can make me able to speak it.
Until that day, I'll continue in the language I know. Thanks.

 

[bruto]

My late mother-in-law (2nd marriage) had a fit when she found out I'd been sterilized after my last son was born. I tried to explain to her that my first husband was abusive, and I tended to get pregnant even on birth control. "Fertile Myrtle," that was me.

She said I had thwarted god's will by preventing him giving me more kids.

I told her that if he could make Mary have a baby, he could surely do the same for me, if it really was his will I had more kids with that creep.

So, I'll say the same thing here:

If your god wants me to speak another language, he can make me able to speak it.
Until that day, I'll continue in the language I know. Thanks.

Well aside from that, it suddenly occurred to me as I was driving home tonight that....wait a second....who is responsible, (according to the Bible, of course) for the diversity of language in the first place? Hmmm, let's see now, does something about a big tower ring a bell? If that old tinpot desert demiurge wanted us to speak one language, he sure went about it in a bassackward way. I'd hate to see all of humanity go to all the trouble of learning Hebrew and then having the old Bastard pop down from his whirlwind and say "don't you guys ever learn?"

 

[Nationalcosmopolitan]

You make my point for me. People (of any religion) in Israel have a pressing economic need to learn Hebrew -- it is the country's national and official language, and if you really want to get by in Israel, you need to know Hebrew.

People not in Israel do not have a pressing economic need to learn Hebrew. They either learn it because it's part of their religion, or because they like languages (in general, or Hebrew in particular).

Evangelicals Christians has their embassy in Jerusalem.
After resurrection of Israel State and the Holy Language they have no doubt that Jews are God chosen people.
They want from Jews recognition of Jesus even the same way as Koran and Muslims recognize HIM.
To tell you the truth I am agree with evangelists Christians in many points.
The most evangelists Christians do not live in Israel constantly but many of them teach there children Hebrew – Resurrected Torah language.
I am absolutely sure that if they have really possibilities to give their children to live in Israel Resurrected language and culture environment – they will do this.
And it is what I am talking about for every Christian and Muslims national confessions people.

All Abrahamic believers have to understand that it is a Great evil sin not to teach their children the Holy Resurrected language.
The same Great evil sin is not to teach the children their national language natively.

Okay. Now you're saying that the Bible do not support your contention that God wants JICs (and, well, now Buddhists, apparently) to learn Hebrew.

Bible, New Testament, Koran and even Buddhist tractate – the Holy Books of Four World Religious are support my idea of postmonoligual – bilingual and even multilingual new people world absolutely.
Because I do not propose to destroy any one of existed cultural and religious institutes.

Absolutely new and effective Global society with out destroying anything from the last cultural world national history.

1) Okay, let me see if I can understand this. You think that because Hebrew is the first really successfully reconstituted "dead" language that this proves that God wants everyone to speak it. Is that close?

2) The actual symbols of Phonecian and Hebrew are not the same at all, and (as far as I know, someone please correct me if I'm wrong) the Torah was not written in Phonecian. The sounds represented by both the Phonecian and Hebrew alphabets are the same.

I don't understand why Phonecian being the first single-sound phonetic alphabet, and sharing those sounds with Hebrew, means that Hebrew is God's ordained JIC (etc.) auxiliary language.

http://www.krysstal.com/writing_evolution.html
http://www.krysstal.com/writing_phonecian.html
http://www.krysstal.com/writing_hebrew.html
Read please Hebrew and Phoenician A, B, C in English.
The same sounds, the same A, B, C pronunciation
Different graphic, but it is because Hebrew A, B, C was printed and even Hebrew written by had mutated.
If Phoenician ancient scriptures exist I have no doubt that natively speaking Hebrew person can read and understand them.

First time I've heard this (though that doesn't really mean anything). What's your source for this, and what do you mean specifically by "most"? According to Wikipedia (insert obligatory grain of salt, I know, I know, I'm lazy), there are 568,300,000 in Southeast Asia (link). Look at that link and you'll see that in most countries, Protestantism in any form most often follows quite a far bit behind Roman Catholicism.

Ok to prove my point is enough to know and understand that for Buddhists is not forbidden to another religious believer together with Buddhist one.

Holy Books. There isn't just one. The Jews have the Torah, whose five books make up some -- but definitely not all -- of the Christian Bible (which comes in a number of sometimes very different versions) and Islam has the Qu'ran.

The Qu'ran wasn't written in Hebrew. It was written in Arabic. The Arabic alphabet developed from Phonecian through Aramaic through Nabatean and into Arabic (according to Wikipedia, that is), but does not share the same set of sounds with Phonecian and Hebrew.

Once more Hebrew and Phoenician alphabets are just the same things.
The language of 5 books Torah was the mother language of all so called western languages.

In theory, all of these languages had their origin in some protolanguage, but that language was neither Phonecian nor was it Hebrew.

And Bible says just the same.
It was the language of Babylon tower builders human beings.
I can’t prove this point but I heard from many orthodox Jews that it was the same language as the language of Torah.

I already told you why your plan is unworkable.

They can’t be unworkable because they have a Great Attractive potential to 2/3 of world wide monotheistic believers – 4*10^9 people of the world.

Did you miss my explanation as to why this is not going to work? In Israel, children know Hebrew because it is the national language and the language of their parents. In the rest of the world, it is not. Why do the children of Israel know English?

Because there is a pressing economic need to do so. You need to know at least some English to be successful (well, to be rich).

To extrapolate your economically determinate philosophy we have to teach hour children only English and will become the Global World of only English Speaking monolinguals.
God made trioresurrection – Christ, Holy Language, Holy Israel state with natively speaking the Language of Solomon citizens.
God made this Great deals for not to give the world to become the Global World of English speaking monolinguals.

I'm sorry, but what you've just said is: "I don't know anything about Esperanto".

There was only one successful project of art creating languages and it was the project of Ben Judo – the project of Resurrection Holy language for native use of Resurrected Israel people and after that to give it to the children of all monotheistic believers.

Every language is easy to learn...provided that you grow up surrounded by people speaking that language, raised by people who speak that language, and need to speak that language yourself in order to participate in the society.

Exactly this environment will build monotheistic believers for there children all over the world to teach Holy Resurrected Language together with national one for reaching salvation in another life and in this life too.

There is no reason for people to learn Hebrew unless:

1) They grow up in, or are wanting to live in, or are wanting to do business with, or have conversations with people in, Israel
2) They want to read & study and discuss the Torah in its current, modern form
3) They are linguists or are otherwise interested in Hebrew.

From borne of Christian and Muslim religious it was impossible to believers to read and understand and discuss the Holy Book on Holy language just because it was dead even for Jews.
And now after it’s Great Resurrection they really have such possibilities.
Are you really thing they will be so stupid not to use it?
To read and to discuss Holy Book on Holy Resurrected language is enough reason to teach children Hebrew in all of the world.

but the majority of the world is not going to pay you any attention, no matter how hard you try to engineer the change. Unless you can swing it so that Israel becomes a world power so major that the world has to learn Hebrew to do business with it.

Ecclesiastic right that Holy City Jerusalem will resurrected and will become the world center.
Many people believe that it is in the main stream right prediction.
Triresurreption in the place of Israel make all 4 world religious world civilization to come consensus about study the Holy Resurrected language – the only lingo frank that will not kill national languages with pragmatic economically and politically determined goals.

 

[Hokulele]

Going from Buddhism as accepting of other faiths to Buddhism promoting Hebrew and Christianity is a ridiculous stretch of the imagination. In addition, the goal of Buddhism is not attaining an afterlife. Quite the opposite of the Abrahamic religions.

Please cite anywhere in the Pali cannon where such a scenario is described.