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Loose Change

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A couple of days ago I was laughing about the "9-11 Truth Movement".
But now after finishing a couple of days of posting to and reading that forum, I no longer find much humor in this.
I knew this thing was getting out of control. But I never imagined the extent of it.
 
A couple of days ago I was laughing about the "9-11 Truth Movement".
But now after finishing a couple of days of posting to and reading that forum, I no longer find much humor in this.
I knew this thing was getting out of control. But I never imagined the extent of it.

I'm right with you, Sultanist. I wasn't aware of 95% of this CT stuff until a couple of weeks ago when I joined this forum. It simply doesn't enter my daily life...and I live in New York City and am a tour guide who's given hundreds of tours at Ground Zero. I have never heard a New Yorker espouse one of these crackpot theories. As an experiment I tried talking sense to one of the worst of the CTists on the Loose Change site, but got nowhere, of course.

Tonight I wrote a long piece about this issue from a New Yorker's perspective. Sat in a coffeehouse and wrote it longhand, which felt good. But now I don't have the energy to type it up and post it. Maybe tomorrow. The main thing, I think, is not to play their game and debate the minutiae. There's no need to get bogged down in details when their arguments can't meet the most general standards of fact, logic or reason.
 
...I wasn't aware of 95% of this CT stuff until a couple of weeks ago when I joined this forum. It simply doesn't enter my daily life...and I live in New York City and am a tour guide who's given hundreds of tours at Ground Zero. I have never heard a New Yorker espouse one of these crackpot theories...
That's because all New Yorkers "live in a haze of psychogenic gasses."
 
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Just wanted to say thanks to delphi and Rand for all your work on this. The Loosers should hire you to teach seminars in critical thinking...they might get somewhere then.:D
 

Priceless! And that theory definitely captures the spirit of New York better than any other. There's been a mysterious "maple syrup smell" going around every now and then, and no one knows where it's coming from. When it's around and the wind is right it covers huge parts of the city. I finally have an explanation.
 
Hey Pipe,

I just caught your latest posts at Loose Change. That was where I was trying to go and failed misserably. So now I'm jaded. Anyway, you're doing a good job.

Thanks.

Strangley they keep banishing me and then unbanishing me from the under the bridge

There seems to be a trend there: Ask you a question about somnething you have no idea about, possibly no interest in, then attack you till you hazard a guess, then jump on you for your answer

curiouser and curiouser
 
They never do. The ones who complain the loudest about the evil oil companies ruling us all never take public trans. or bike to work. They always are the ones who drive one to a car. If you mention it they act as if their location and lack of effort is the oil companies' fault. I've met arch-conservative neo-cons who do more to not burn oil on a daily basis than these folks do. Its easier to complain about imaginary future threats from Bush's oil buddies and their biotech ways (!) than to actually do something about them.

Conspiracy theories are opiates of the self-impressed. They are for people who aren't smart enough in normal fields of study to make a 'name' for themselves so they jump into a world of vauge evidence and imaginary shadow figures and all of a sudden they are special for knowing what the rest of us sheeple don't know. They are suddenly part of a select 'elite' who are in the know that something happened, just don't be too specifics about what happened and you can stay in your fuzzy shadow world.

:clap:
 
Graham S1 said:
theres a hell of a lot of questions to answer. it would be pointless. It would generate hundreds more from that probably. I work, and have a wife, a life, and a child, unlike some of you I don't spend all day on the net.

anyone watched that Senate video yet?

Why should WE make that effort, then ?
 
Why should WE make that effort, then ?
well it's only a few minuest long, but it's only relivence is taht it mentions some "war games" exercises carried out on 9/11. Graham S1 hasn't told me why I should care about those yet.
 
I doubt DU is radioactive enough for a dirty bomb; it's actually used as a liner to transport more radioactive materials, like strontium, cesium and cobalt. The latter are used for medical applications such as radiotherapy, and the resulting waste might be better suited for dirty bomb-making purposes, as well as being more easy to get hold of without leaving indications of DoE or NRC involvement in the plot.

Yeah, DU isn't very radioactive, but can be highly deadly as a dust or powder. I was trying to keep things short, and unfortunately sacrificed accuracy :)

Thanks for the clarification. And your points about the relative ease of obtaining medical radioactives just goes further to support the point...9/11 as a plan would have to be one of the most poorly concieved ideas in history...somewhere along the lines of Custer's "Let's just charge 'em!"

:D
 
If I don't get a response from the admins, I will PM them. Do you know which one banned you, or should I just send it to all of them?

As to the links, I wasn't trying to steal your thunder. I was just trying to give you more for your list! Those are just the links I remember previously mentioned in the thread.
Thanks delpi, I appreciate it. It was TheQuest.
 
Well, now Roxdog from the LC forum is over at another forum challenging people to come on his "radio show". Funny, he doesn't have the testicular fortitude to come over here and argue his nonsense. What a tool... and a complete coward.
 
Hello, I’m new to this forum and this is my first post. I am a francophone so please be indulgent.

I’m from the province of Québec and the anti-american sentiment here is overwelming. Needless to say the Loose Change «film» is very popular. I’ve been trying for 5 years to answer to those gullible people without success. They just stick to their impressions and loose interpretations of the 9/11 facts (see the Alek member of this thread, typical). That’s how I found this thread and I must say, even though I haven’t completed reading it all, I’m delighted!

I’m an illustrator so I’m by no means a scientist and have absolutely no expertise in structural engeneering or psychology, but here is my take on all of this. (I’m sorry if it as already been said in this thread, but I was anxious of telling it):

People tend to tie up loose ends, to link coincidences together in order to make the world make sense. Maybe that’s why Loose Change is so poplular. It’s a common human weakness. We cannot think that the world is a result of luck and chance, it has to be a result of purpose. Like religion. People believe Loose Change because they have faith. But faith in what? They believe the American governement and the «globalists» want to take over the world. Anything else is false. But like any religion, that can’t be proven. How conveniant. I think faith is a feeling, and feeling is unreliable. There is alot of things to worry about the globalisation of the economy, and the bush Administration has alot to answer for (the recent phone tappings for example). But the CT must take a step back and be objective. they also need to consider that coincideces do happen. I’m not a professional skeptic but shouldn’t the occurence of chance be incorporated to any investigation? Coincidences are everywhere, at evey seconds. We just don’t see them until an event makes us look (like 9/11). That’s all. Of course some of the discrepencies seem odd and suspicious, but that’s true with everything in life when you let your feelings guide your mind. It is strange that the WTC7 collapsed, and that it had CIA offices makes for a big coincidence. But then again, there aren’t big coincidences. We may never know why WTC7 collapsed, it just did. And it's not a 20 year old amateur filmmaker who is going to convince me that there's a conspiracy.

Back to reading the thread, I’m taking notes.:D
 
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Well, now Roxdog from the LC forum is over at another forum challenging people to come on his "radio show". Funny, he doesn't have the testicular fortitude to come over here and argue his nonsense. What a tool... and a complete coward.
The official site for the movie "Flight 93" has a whole forum for "alternate theories?" Wonder if they do that for their other non-fiction movies?
 
Hello, I’m new to this forum and this is my first post. I am a francophone so please be indulgent.

I’m from the province of Québec and the anti-american sentiment here is overwelming. Needless to say the Loose Change «film» is very popular. I’ve been trying for 5 years to answer to those gullible people without success. They just stick to their impressions and loose interpretations of the 9/11 facts (see the Alek member of this thread, typical). That’s how I found this thread and I must say, even though I haven’t completed reading it all, I’m delighted!

I’m an illustrator so I’m by no means a scientist and have absolutely no expertise in structural engeneering or psychology, but here is my yake on all of this. (I’m sorry if it as already been said in this thread, but I was anxious of telling it):

People tend to tie up loose ends, to link coincidences together in order to make the world make sense. Maybe that’s why Loose Change is so poplular. It’s a common human weakness. We cannot think that the world is a result of luck and chance, it has to be a result of purpose. Like religion. People believe Loose Change because they have faith. But faith in what? They believe the American governement and the «globalists» want to take over the world. Anything else is false. But like any religion, that can’t be proven. How conveniant. I think faith is a feeling, and feeling is unreliable. There is alot of things to worry about the globalisation of the economy, and the bush Administration has alot to answer for (the recent phone tappings for example). But the CT must take a step back and be objective. they also need to consider that coincideces do happen. I’m not a professional skeptic but shouldn’t the occurence of chance be incorporated to any investigation? Coincidences are everywhere, at evey seconds. We just don’t see them until an event makes us look (like 9/11). That’s all. Of course some of the discrepencies seem odd and suspicious, but that’s true with everything in life when you let your feelings guide your mind. It is strange that the WTC7 collapsed, and that it had CIA offices makes for a big coincidence. But then again, there aren’t big coincidences. We may never know why WTC7 collapsed, it just did. And it's not a 20 year old amateur filmmaker who is going to convince me that there's a conspiracy.

Back to reading the thread, I’m taking notes.:D
Welcome to the forum, Pardalis. You may not be a professional skeptic, but judging from your first post, you're a natural one. Thanks for joining the conversation.
 
Why should WE make that effort, then ?
I know, this kills me. They demand you do your "research" or do your "homework" as they chant over and over. But they'll be damned if they will do any homework that contradicts their precious world view.

Thing is, I was watching their damn video when they pulled the plug. I was about two thirds of the way in when I was given the boot. I was honestly doing as they had asked. And it wasn't impossible for me to change my mind. If the evidence is there I'm on their side. Period!

I don't assume that I'm right and then find the evidence to support my belief. However before this incident I had read the PM article and Randi's points and others and was leaning strongly against.

They wanted me to look and I was willing. Not good enough for them though.

What's funny is Alek states my noise to substance ratio was high. Hell, that is all that is there is noise. And I stuck to logic. Many of the people with whom I was dealing with were largely engaging in rhetoric. To be honest, many if not most of the people I came into contact with there don't even understand what constitutes logically valid argument.
 
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The official site for the movie "Flight 93" has a whole forum for "alternate theories?" Wonder if they do that for their other non-fiction movies?
Why not? Maybe make another movie about that too.
 
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