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Loose Change

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I just got a random AIM message from the author of this webcomic.


And he linked me to none other than our own Gravy's analysis. Apparently it's really making the rounds!

So the guy that contacted me is being harassed by Loosers from the Universal Pictures website (United 93) because a poster there named jebb is blasting the Loosers. jebb also happens to be a fan of the webcomic, so he has a link to it in his signature on the Universal Pictures forum. Apparently to the Loosers this makes the author of the webcomic complicit in the conspiracy, so they've been sending nasty e-mails. :rolleyes:

Here's a link to a particularly interesting thread on the Universal Forum. Anyone interested in heading over there and helping out? ;)

ETA From that thread:

Very cool. I'll start promoting that critique when I have the final version done, in the next couple of days.

ETA: I posted over there and reminded the critics that I invited corrections by email on the first page of my critique, but I haven't received any from them.
 
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Depressed? Why?
Well, it's depressing to think that there are so many people out there whose education hasn't given them the ability to think critically.

Not all of these people are 14 year-olds who play video games all day. Geggy claims to be 29, and the 911Truth.org people that Manny and I met last week were in their 20s to 60s. I'm putting together a critique of their literature now. Of about 30 claims I've looked at so far, exactly one (the Sibel Edmonds story) has validity, IMO. These are people who claim to know the "truth."

The "911 scholars for truth" are adults, many of whom have expertise in certain fields, but who are completely wlling to throw away any training they've had in research methods, logic, etc., in order to push a political agenda. These are also people who claim to know the "truth."

And this is all a distraction from how effed up the leadership of the U.S. (both parties) actually is, and how dangerous al Qaeda has been. It isn't easy to support both the U.S. status quo and al Qaeda, but the CTists have found a way.
 
Well, it's depressing to think that there are so many people out there whose education hasn't given them the ability to think critically.
But you've been encouraging critical thinking, and you're making an impact! A lot of people in that thread said things along the lines of "You know, I was thinking there was something wrong with that claim, but I just didn't look it up." These are people you haven't even met before, and you're giving them the ammunition to shoot down these theories.
And this is all a distraction from how effed up the leadership of the U.S. (both parties) actually is, and how dangerous al Qaeda has been. It isn't easy to support both the U.S. status quo and al Qaeda, but the CTists have found a way.
Yes, it's odd that you can't really place the Loosers on the Right or Left end of the political spectrum. They seem to share the worst elements of both sides; the John Birch Society and the "Paul Wellstone was murdered" crowds living in perfect lunatic harmony.

I've long held that going far enough to the Right or to the Left puts you in essentially the same place, but I never expected such direct proof.
 
I know what your saying mate. It is depressing, but your a Sagan in the CT realm! Gravy as a candle in the dark!

I have associates within my music scene that live by this stuff, and no matter how ludicrus it gets, it somehow is just more vindication for the belief in it. They were close friends at one stage, but I feel ill hearing them - though aint really had much to do with them for at least 3-4 years apart from a brief howdi at a gig. Its the same feeling of dred I get when I hear Benny Hinn, John Edwards etc etc.

It is fanatical. I just dont get it. Actually I do. I remember spouting Stichins 12th planet work to people back in the day and they were wowed over the amazing knowledge I had. I felt way cool. So selective. Like so elite, I knew something no one did and they were amazed by it! In the end its a lot of knowledge but with no wisdom at all.

To quote a great man amongst the music scene
"The philosopher, you know so much about nothing at all" - Chuck Schuldiner RIP.

oakly doakly
 
I gueess tony fox has experience in lying in front of the camera while he was the fox news anchor. so bush figured he'd be the perfect guy for the press secetary position in order to lie for him. I'm sayin that the bush administration has a stranglehold on the media just as hitler did during the nazi regime. If you'd study the history of the third reich, the parellel of the nazi regime and the current bush regime is far too similiar. Afterall bush's grandfather was hitler's banker. Did you know that the nazis were responsible for the reichstag fire?

But Bush has a stranglehold on the media ALL OVER THE WORLD, right? Hey, not even Hitler could get that.
 
I know this question has been raised before, but again today I found myself pondering the question of what sort of disconnect goes through someone's mind who honestly believes the "government" is capable of something like 9/11 but is not particularily worried about the repercussions for exposing the "truth" over the internet? How can one hold both beliefs in one's mind at the same time? Are you even worried about it, Geggy?

If "yes," why would you leave a trail to make things easier for the "evil government" to deal with you?

If "no," what makes you think a government who, in your view, is capable of murdering nearly three thousand citizens would even think twice before eliminating you and your wacky looser friends?

To me, the fact that you're all still around babbling your conspiracy silliness tends to prove that your CT nonsense is just that ... nonsense.
 
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This thread is so long that I must humbly request a summary! Gravy, is there a link to a comprehensive rebuttal of the conspiracy theory?

I can't say "I was there" at the Pentagon but I was in Maryland inside the Beltway at the time and heard about the first plane, rushed to my computer, watched CNN and BBC both cable and online as tower 1 falling, tower 2, plane down in PA, there were rumors of car bombs at the Treasury and such and general fear.

It would take a great deal of evidence for me to consider that the killing was done by anybody other than the individuals that took over the planes. They did it on purpose, probably somebody told them to do it, etc. Is one expected to believe that a US government plot conceived and executed this horror? The successor of Lincoln, Truman, Kennedy, would actually have such a thought? Even if one hates GWBush's guts, that's a pretty big leap. Dumb fratboys aren't supposed to be that evil.

(edited to use the third person more pleasantly)
 
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I have read page 51.

Now you will, perhaps, explain to us how it proves the existence of TEH CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!

Or maybe you can't. That would explain why you haven't done so.
 
Gravy, what about the Seibel Edmonds story do you find compelling?
I don't know much about it beyond things I read yesterday, so please help me out if you know more.

911truth.org writes this in their pamphlet:
Why didn't the 9/11 Commission explain these issues?[...]Testimony by FBI translator Sibel Edmonds revealing foreknowledge of 9/11 and infiltration of the department by a foreign operative.
And my response (comments in brackets are mine):
Okay, now you may be on to something. I haven’t looked into it in depth, but he story of Sibel Edmonds seems to be worthy of more attention. This is the kind of thing I wish the "9-11 truth movement" spent its time on: specific allegations – by a credible person "in the know" – of serious flaws in our national security system. A summary from your website, 911Truth.org:
[From Sept. 20, 2001 to March 2002] Sibel Edmonds worked as a language specialist for the FBI’s Washington Field Office [She had top-secret clearance]. During her work with the bureau, she discovered and reported [what she believed to be] serious acts of security breaches, cover-ups, and intentional blocking of intelligence that had national security implications. After she reported these acts to FBI management, she was retaliated against by the FBI and ultimately fired in March 2002. Since that time, court proceedings on her issues have been blocked by the assertion of “State Secret Privilege” and the Congress of the United States has been gagged and prevented from any discussion of her case through retroactive re-classification by the Department of Justice.
Edmonds says she uncovered untranslated and poorly-translated documents that were gathered prior to 9/11 and that pointed to an aircraft-as-missile plot. She also reported concerns about a coworker who may have been involved in espionage – a very serious charge in that department. Some of her other allegations were mundane, such as travel voucher abuse and timesheet fraud. She says that she brought her concerns to the highest level, including Director Mueller, and was stonewalled and eventually fired. She is gagged from giving any details about the case bacause then-Attorney General John Ashcroft apparently had the matter “retroactively classified.”

Her open letter to Thomas Kean, head of the 9/11 Commission, is filled with specific allegations and is a very scary read. http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0802-06.htm It alleges that the FBI's counterterrorism department is rife with the kinds of problems you might expect to see in a Board of Education bureacracy, not in a place where matters of national security are paramount, and that these problems have been deliberately covered up.

A summary of an investigation by the Office of the Inspector General is here: http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/FBI/a0533/app7.htm

The OIG investigation summary supports some of her claims, but doesn’t mention anything about 9/11…is that because it’s all classified? While there are without doubt national security implications to the case, and intelligence-gathering methods to protect, parts of the Sibel Edmonds case smack of a coverup of incompetence in crucial areas, and retribution against a whistleblower. The vigor with which she has pursued the matter in the courts seems to indicate that this is more than a case of someone seeking revenge against an unjust employer. See her website here: http://www.justacitizen.com/
 
This thread is so long that I must humbly request a summary! Gravy, is there a link to a comprehensive rebuttal of the conspiracy theory?
Turn away! Turn away from this insane asylum's gates before you become one of its prisoners!

The best site I know of for 9-11 conspiracy debunking is 911myths.com. It's very well researched and doesn't go over the top in its claims. There's a decent set of links at a blog I started but haven't done anything else with yet, http://911getthefacts.blogspot.com/
 
This is hardly news, geggy. This stuff has been around for years.
I love how the article states:
However, researchers aren't permitted to discuss what practical military applications may come from this research.
and three paragraphs later,
Carpenter says the U.S. military has developed "cave-buster" bombs using nanoaluminum, and it is also working on missiles and torpedoes that move so quickly that they strike their targets before evasive actions can be taken.
Thermite itself is not an explosive, but it can be used as a catalyst. What's it got to do with the WTC? And when are you going to answer my question about how the 1975 fire differs from the 9/11 attacks? After all, you implied that since WTC 1 didn't fall because of that fire, it shouldn't have fallen on 9/11.

edited to fix quotes
 
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