Loose Change - Part IV

[rwguinn]

As a complete aside, they still sell cola and a few other assorted soft drinks in glass bottle here in Norway. Good thing too, because it really tastes much better than in the plastic bottles. Especially the 1.5 liter plastic bottles.

Originally Posted by Jennie C.

I'm not the only one here who remembers when soda came in glass bottles, right? Well in that yesteryear, my husband had the distressing habit of putting one in the freezer and not telling me, nor setting any kind of timer.

Growing up in West Texas/Eastern New Mexico, USA--In summertime, we kept those bottles in air conditioned areas because otherwise, about 16% of them would send shrapnel all over the place--just from the exposure to sunlight and Desert SouthWest heat.In the grocery stores, where they were stacked up, when 1 went, a BUNCH of them went blooie!
That was one of the reasons they changed to plastic--there were actually people injured (minor cuts, that I personally know of)

 

[Blue Mountain]

As a complete aside, they still sell cola and a few other assorted soft drinks in glass bottle here in Norway. Good thing too, because it really tastes much better than in the plastic bottles. Especially the 1.5 liter plastic bottles.

Have you conducted blinded experiments to see if there is a detectable difference?

 

[delphi_ote]

I've only worked with Secret rated materials, although I had a buddy that handled TS/SCI level info (technical and tactical intelligence). So I know a bit about it

I'm TS/SI. A document with such sensitive information would not be left open on someone's desk, even in an area where everyone is cleared, and a computer system in that area would not be connected to the internet. Nobody working on it would be "waiting for some patches to download."

If you check the Lauro Chavez thread, I've sent an FOIA request for all publicly releasable records related to this guy...we currently believe his DD 214 was doctored.

I read that whole thread. Excellent detective work all around. I also really admire your caution about jumping to conclusions. I look forward to the outcome of that request!

 

[Hellbound]

I'm TS/SI. A document with such sensitive information would not be left open on someone's desk, even in an area where everyone is cleared, and a computer system in that area would not be connected to the internet. Nobody working on it would be "waiting for some patches to download."

Ah, didn't hear that part

Yes, it would not be connected to the network or Internet (to my understanding, there are classified networks, but they are completely seperate from unclassified systems and not Internet-connected).

I read that whole thread. Excellent detective work all around. I also really admire your caution about jumping to conclusions. I look forward to the outcome of that request!

Well, part of my caution is because, having been in the military, I know how screwd up they can get paperwork at times (and how many will take easy ways to correct mistakes, such as liquid-papering instead of retyping a document). However, I feel certain at this point that something is fishy about the form I'll be curious to see how the request goes, as well. I just hope they don't ask for too much of a fee...the fundage is not currently abundant

 

[JamesB]

Ah, didn't hear that part

Yes, it would not be connected to the network or Internet (to my understanding, there are classified networks, but they are completely seperate from unclassified systems and not Internet-connected).



Well, part of my caution is because, having been in the military, I know how screwd up they can get paperwork at times (and how many will take easy ways to correct mistakes, such as liquid-papering instead of retyping a document). However, I feel certain at this point that something is fishy about the form I'll be curious to see how the request goes, as well. I just hope they don't ask for too much of a fee...the fundage is not currently abundant

This version of the DD-214 is computer generated. The last I checked liquid paper doesn't work too well with a laser jet printer.

 

[Hellbound]

This version of the DD-214 is computer generated. The last I checked liquid paper doesn't work too well with a laser jet printer.

True, it is the automated FormFlow form. However, knowing not only military personnel, but also FormFlow (software which is only about 14 years out-of-date), it wouldn't suprise me if the form was printed off and the info typed, either. I've seen similar things done. Another reason I suggested caution at the beginning.

Of course, I'm 99% certain it's falsified at this point.

 

[delphi_ote]

Yes, it would not be connected to the network or Internet (to my understanding, there are classified networks, but they are completely seperate from unclassified systems and not Internet-connected).

No machine in an area where real time flight planning is going on would be connected to any kind of outside network. Even unclass machines that might be connected to the internet couldn't pull down executable files. The risk of an information leak is nothing compared to the risk of a user accidentally downloading a virus that takes down a critical machine or network. Those computers are locked down tight.

A supposed computer expert would not refer to "downloading" a patch unless he meant exactly that. This guy is a fraud.

 

[Hellbound]

No machine in an area where real time flight planning is going on would be connected to any kind of outside network. Even unclass machines that might be connected to the internet couldn't pull down executable files. The risk of an information leak is nothing compared to the risk of a user accidentally downloading a virus that takes down a critical machine or network. Those computers are locked down tight.

A supposed computer expert would not refer to "downloading" a patch unless he meant exactly that. This guy is a fraud.

Welllll....

We used internal Windows update servers to distribute patches within our network. THey would be dowloaded and examined first, then place on the patch servers for distribution within the network.

Now, admittedly, I didn't work on a high-security area, so I dunno. They wouldn't be downloading form teh Internet or an outside network, butif they ran an internal network (just the classified machines), would they have an update server attached to it? ONe they controlled, and placed the updates they had determined as "okay" on it for distribution?

You know more about the classified systems and networks than I do...we had a couple individual secret-level computers, but nothing major.

Just a slight addition: the 74B20 MOS is not "Computer Expert". I'd plac eit on par witht he Techs at CompUSA or BEst Buy. So don't place too much faith in the Army's computer training program (and this is the job I have for the Army as well, so I know a bit about this MOS).

 

[TK0001]

He means, like this ?

Hey! I thought of the CT Timeline as I was reading this article! I should submit it to him....

 

[Bell]

Hey! I thought of the CT Timeline as I was reading this article! I should submit it to him....

Yes, do so. I was thinking of mailing him and refering to that JREF topic as well. But it's your thread, so the honor is yours

 

[TK0001]

Yes, do so. I was thinking of mailing him and refering to that JREF topic as well. But it's your thread, so the honor is yours

I left a link in the comments section, for what it's worth.

 

[Almo]

I was trying to find the link to the Loose Change forum just now, because I haven't bookmarked it, and this is what I found Googling the words:

http://www.loose-change.org/

That's a damned good site there. I'm completely serious about that. Great. Is there any way to sound serious? This is sort of like if I said "It's true," when I really mean it.

Check out the punctuation! "It's true" is a complete sentence in the quotes, but I ended it with a comma INSIDE the quotes. Which I believe is correct.

 

[Jennie C.]

You are saying they used Coke and a giant freezer to bring down the WTC?

Well, heck yeah. Why not? As plausible as any of the other CT theories, no?

 

[Jennie C.]

As a complete aside, they still sell cola and a few other assorted soft drinks in glass bottle here in Norway. Good thing too, because it really tastes much better than in the plastic bottles. Especially the 1.5 liter plastic bottles.

Well, I always thought my beer (Genesse, get it?) tasted better in glass too. But I thought that was just because the bottles were returnable and I was drinking the stuff at about 45cents per pint.

But then they stopped filling the longnecks, so I went to Budweiser in cans.

 

[njslim]

>As a complete aside, they still sell cola and a few other assorted soft drinks >in glass bottle here in Norway. Good thing too, because it really tastes >much better than in the plastic bottles. Especially the 1.5 liter plastic
>bottles.

But they sell 40 oz malt liquor in glass bottles - figure that out!

 

[delphi_ote]

We used internal Windows update servers to distribute patches within our network. THey would be dowloaded and examined first, then place on the patch servers for distribution within the network.

That's usually the way tech support handles that kind of thing. But that wouldn't leave someone waiting a long time for the patch download to read a document left open on the desk, which is his claim. The file would come right across the internal network.

Just a slight addition: the 74B20 MOS is not "Computer Expert". I'd plac eit on par witht he Techs at CompUSA or BEst Buy. So don't place too much faith in the Army's computer training program (and this is the job I have for the Army as well, so I know a bit about this MOS).

Would they turn someone loose like that on the computers in the middle of a critical area of CENTCOM?

I know some crazy things happen in secured areas from time to time. Even "the best and brightest" can be careless bureaucratic nitwits. But his story is so unlikely the more I think about it. There are all of these convenient lapses in security, unlikely descriptions of secure facilities, oddities in the way he describes the events on the most remembered day in recent history, and the man just happened to hear exactly the information the CT community has claimed for ages over the course of two days? And he doesn't have any further information or details to add? Not even the names of the people he overheard or exactly what they said?

 

[Mr. Skinny]

True, it is the automated FormFlow form. However, knowing not only military personnel, but also FormFlow (software which is only about 14 years out-of-date), it wouldn't suprise me if the form was printed off and the info typed, either. I've seen similar things done. Another reason I suggested caution at the beginning.

Of course, I'm 99% certain it's falsified at this point.

Concur that FormFlow bites. It could have been printed, then typed, but where I work in the AF it's hard to find a typewriter these days (YMMV).

Agree about the TS computers. Ours are not connected to the network and undergo a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ of security measures that users must comply with.

Let's see....oh yeah, we have quarterly security briefings, and at least once a year it's devoted to COMSEC.

And...the global email listing varies from installation to installation. Some keep their database current; some don't.

Sorry, can't remember all the other points.

 

[CurtC]

Let's see....oh yeah, we have quarterly security briefings, and at least once a year it's devoted to COMSEC.

Sorry, can't remember all the other points.

Lotsa good all those security briefings did!

 

[Hellbound]

I know some crazy things happen in secured areas from time to time. Even "the best and brightest" can be careless bureaucratic nitwits. But his story is so unlikely the more I think about it. There are all of these convenient lapses in security, unlikely descriptions of secure facilities, oddities in the way he describes the events on the most remembered day in recent history, and the man just happened to hear exactly the information the CT community has claimed for ages over the course of two days? And he doesn't have any further information or details to add? Not even the names of the people he overheard or exactly what they said?

True enough on all points (even those not quoted).

I'm just saying that his story is theorectically within the realm of possibility. Just as it's theorectically within the realm of possibility that I'm actually adopted, and my real parents are extremely rich royalty of some other nation, and I'm the next in line for the throne.

I agree with you otherwise, though. It's so improbable that unless I see hard evidence of the specific event, I can't accept it as true in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

 

[delphi_ote]

True enough on all points (even those not quoted).

I'm just saying that his story is theorectically within the realm of possibility. Just as it's theorectically within the realm of possibility that I'm actually adopted, and my real parents are extremely rich royalty of some other nation, and I'm the next in line for the throne.

I agree with you otherwise, though. It's so improbable that unless I see hard evidence of the specific event, I can't accept it as true in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

You're absolutely right about it being within the realm of possibility. As I said before, I admire your caution. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the whole narrative. When you spend a lot of time picking at the details, you can lose sight of the big picture. After deconstructing it and putting it back together... wow. This is quite a tale.

I really hope we get some details from that FOIA request you put in. It would be really nice to put this story to bed once and for all.