Loose Change - Part IV

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Submersible said:
You can't even discuss the contents of the images that are available to everyone.
I mean, if you watch tower 1 & 2 as they begin to fall, how have you and others been able to "dismiss" the sudden explosion of everything on those floors.
If by some miracle the iron reached a temperature where it failed to hold it's load, it's not as if every beam on the floor would have somewhat exploded and allowed the top portion of the tower to come crumbling down.

Heated metal may bend, but it doesn't EXPLODE.
And regardless how hot the iron on the "fire floors" reached, if by some miracle the top portion of the towers were allowed to literally FALL down on the lower portion of the structure...
it's not as it it would have BLOWN THE FOUNDATION OUT OF THE SUPERSTRUCTURE.

I've seen the same video's and images as everybody else, but for some reason the contents of those images are rarely discussed. The amount of fire that was present in both towers when they first began to fall is NOT sufficient enough to melt each and every beam on 4 or 5 floors at the same exact time.
Please tell me how hot metal must bet before it EXPLODES the way it appears to do in ALL of the video footage of the towers as they collapse.

Show me the light sweetheart.
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Well, not all of the steel would have to fail because high temperatures caused bending. Once enough steel failed due to the high temperatures, the load they were supporting would be transferred to the rest of the structure. They would then be overloaded, and would fail in other ways not related to temperature (torsion, shear, tension, etc.).
 
Submersible said:
You can lay down and take IT up the @#$ all you want from the establishment and continue to be programmed all you want.
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To whom is that rude comment addressed?

please don't get confused, NOTHING I've done lately represents the actions of a sane MAN. It's just been really difficult to find another one, especially one that already has a 'voice' who is ready to DO something other than bitching and moaning about their problems.
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According to the recent (small sample) poll at LC, what half of them aren't willing to do is vote. Dylan Avery has even proudly stated that he's not registered to vote.
 
Submersible said:
You can't even discuss the contents of the images that are available to everyone.
I mean, if you watch tower 1 & 2 as they begin to fall, how have you and others been able to "dismiss" the sudden explosion of everything on those floors.
If by some miracle the iron reached a temperature where it failed to hold it's load, it's not as if every beam on the floor would have somewhat exploded and allowed the top portion of the tower to come crumbling down.

Heated metal may bend, but it doesn't EXPLODE.
And regardless how hot the iron on the "fire floors" reached, if by some miracle the top portion of the towers were allowed to literally FALL down on the lower portion of the structure...
it's not as it it would have BLOWN THE FOUNDATION OUT OF THE SUPERSTRUCTURE.

I've seen the same video's and images as everybody else, but for some reason the contents of those images are rarely discussed. The amount of fire that was present in both towers when they first began to fall is NOT sufficient enough to melt each and every beam on 4 or 5 floors at the same exact time.
Please tell me how hot metal must bet before it EXPLODES the way it appears to do in ALL of the video footage of the towers as they collapse.

Show me the light sweetheart.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you could seek out a few qualified structural engineers, anywhere in the world, and explain to them how they are wrong.

They will thank you.
 
Submersible, welcome back!

Would you care to respond to my last question to you, back at post #1928?

Me said:
Friend, there are only two ways anyone can "come to a conclusion" about something: they are presented with factual, verifiable evidence, or misled with lies and innuendo. Which would you like to provide?
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Regnad Kcin said:
Friend, there are only two ways anyone can "come to a conclusion" about something: they are presented with factual, verifiable evidence, or misled with lies and innuendo. Which would you like to provide?
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To be fair, couldn't you hear some factual, verifiable evidence and some lies and innuendo, and simply jump to a conclusion that was later proven to be wrong?
 
I was wondering...do we have any good info on the whole "ASTM E119 Steel" argument.

Doing a net search, I can find little wrt the "6 hours" that the Steel should have remained unhindered if it were of the ASTM E119 Standard.

What I do find is information that describes the ASTM E119 as a series of tests created in 1918 to measure the ability of BUILDING STRUCTURES to withstand fire and subsequent temperature. I can't find anything about how this test was applied to the Steel Beams by themselves, rather than as part of the building structure as a whole, and I can find no Temp curve with anything close to 6h on it. Most of them list temps over a 1-2 hour period...

As this statement is used alot by the CTs, I would appreciate some clarification.

Oh, and submersible, if the "take it up the ^&*&" comment was directed at me, I do not take it up the "^&*&" for anyone, let alone govt, and I am far from programmed...
 
Mr. Skinny;

That would be great. Even better, would be if you could break it down for a non-engineering scientist into something I can understand, specifically, with how it was/would be applied to the WTC steel.

Thanks.
 
I noticed today we are calling up ex military,.. again! Anyone know if Korey is starting to squirm? He's gotta go soon, I would think! All I can say is friendly fire!Oopss, I said it out loud!

DT
 
He'll probably get D.A. and J.B. To jump up and down on his legs until they go "crack".
 
Mr. Skinny said:
To be fair, couldn't you hear some factual, verifiable evidence and some lies and innuendo, and simply jump to a conclusion that was later proven to be wrong?
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Well, our new friend was talking about "coming to a conclusion," not "jumping" to the same. But perhaps it's a quibble. I concede your point.
 
T.A.M. said:
Mr. Skinny;

That would be great. Even better, would be if you could break it down for a non-engineering scientist into something I can understand, specifically, with how it was/would be applied to the WTC steel.

Thanks.
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Well, I'd guess it's a series of tests where a load is applied to (perhaps) a cantilevered steel beam. It gets heated to various temperatures, the heat source is removed and one measures if the steel "snaps back" to it's original dimensions. Once the steel won't recover when heated past a certain point, it's reached it's Youngs modulus of elasticity, IIRC, and fail.

Sorry, but it's been too many years since my static and dynamics courses. Hope others will correct my mistakes.

If I can get the ASTM Std, I think I'd rather leave it to the engineers that work in the field to put in laymans terms, TAM.
 
Regnad Kcin said:
Which would you like to provide?
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I would like to discuss the images and the appearance of the towers as they stood and as they fell.

If there was a fire hot enough inside of either tower to weaken the iron beyond it's structural capabilities, it would have done it one at a time unless the fire was tremendous... which it wasn't according to the images, video or radio transmissions.

If you look at the images right before the towers fell or the video's, there is a sudden explosion all the way around the 'fire or entry floors' that blew debris in every direction, and the top portion of the structure came crumbling down.
Regardless how much fire or heat was inside each tower , unless it 'free fell' to the floors beneath it the building wouldn't have failed to hold the top portion up, seeing as it had the strength to do so for so many years.
How do the 'professionals' explain that the top 1/4 of the tower had the strength or compression abilities to suddenly crush the remaining 3/4 of the tower including the foundation.

The demolition WTC 1 & 2 was identical.
And there are no images of tower 7 that shows a 'gaping hole' or enough damage to weaken the structure... much less the foundation. right ?


Submersible, it's not becoming to compound ignorance ("Iron" "Explode" "Melt") with arrogance.
Click to expand...

How would you describe the complete destruction of the towers, or the explosion that takes place as they initially begin to fall... or the material used to construct the buildings ? ?

like priannah
 
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Here is their "Schedule":

9/11/06: FIVE YEARS OF LIES, FOUR DAYS OF TRUTH/THE WEEKEND TRUTH WILL CHANGE THE WORLD

Friday, Sept.8th, St. Marks

Welcome/Introduction/Actions
7:00 – 7:30

Al Fonz of 9/11 Vets For Truth: 9/11 As Pretext For Iraq Invasion
7:30 – 8:00

Korey Rowe veteran of the Iraq and Afganistan War.
8:00 – 8:45

Ralph Schoenman: 9/11 and the Attack on Lebanon
8:45 – 10:00

Saturday, Sept.9th, Community Church

9/11 Truth Movement hits the Streets, flyering and outreach throughout New York City starting at Union Square by the Washington statue.
11:00am

Jim Marrs, Tom Foti, Chris Emery, Howie Hawkins
3:00 – 5:30 pm

Barry Zwicker
7:00 – 8:00

First responders
8:00 – 9:00

9/11 Victims Family Members
9:00 – 9:30

Sunday Sept. 10th, Cooper Union Hall


9/11 Truth Breakthrough Press Conference to feature all major speakers
11:30 – 12:15

9/11 Truth Breakthrough Rally!

Judy Wood, Jim Fetzer, Jesse Richard, Ralph Schoenman, Jim Marrs, Barry Zwicker, Ian Wood , Kevin Barrett, Faiz Kahn, Carl Person, Les Jamison.
1:00 – 5:00

Dinner Break
5:00 - 6:30

Introduction and Ground Zero Plan
6:30 – 7:00

Alex Jones – progress in the movement
7:00 – 7:30

Preview of LC Final Cut
7:30 – 9:30

Immortal Technique
9:30 – Night

Monday, Sept. 11th, St. Marks Church

Ground Zero Rally For Truth
9/11 Truth Convergence and Stragedy Session for 2007
Some can March back to St. Marks Church, or take the subway
8:00 am

9/11 Truth Convergence - food, music and speaker, networking...open mike, video area, info etc.
4:30

St. Marks Church
2nd Ave 10th Street
NY, NY 10003

Take the 6 train to Astor Place
or R train to 8th Street

Community Church
40 east 35th street by Park Ave.
NY, NY 10016

Take the 6 train to 33rd street
Copper Union
3rd Avenue, 7th street.
NY, NY 10003

Take the 6 train to Astor place
or R train to 8th street

+=+=+

And, Luke is having a screening soon...

Social Concerns Committee Film Forum
Sunday, August 20, 2006
10:45am
Unitarian Church of Staten Island
312 Fillmore Street, corner of Clinton, one block east of Snug Harbor
http://www.unitarianchurchofstatenisland.org/
 
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