Loose Change - Part IV

[tsig]

Oh, go on, tell them the worst chemtrails are the ones you can't see. . .

I see you really are truely evil in a nice sort of way. You know some of them will believe it. Then you will have a following. There's nobody more demanding than true believers.

 

[T.A.M.]

That won't happen, because 90% of the CTers don't believe "Islamic Extremists" exist.

 

[Dog Town]

I would not be surprised to see them start to buddy up with the Islamic extremists, seems like a perfect match.

CTer;
But....but....they don't exist...,do they?

edit: Damn'it TAM ya beat me! Doh!

 

[T.A.M.]

ya gotta be quick...wit da wit...

 

[Dog Town]

ya gotta be quick...wit da wit...

Typing slow, wit like light'nin! Great minds do think alike. This page proves that.
Atleast on this topic!

DT

 

[Gravy]

If you've been talking to Johnny about this you can qualify for the $1 million...

You probably need to be in certain states to get the reference. "The Law Firm of Johnny Cochrane" is still going strong. They advertise on TV a lot.

 

[negativ]

For a lot of these Deniers it's all about Bush, and once he's gone it won't have the same urgency.

I fully expect that on the morning after Election Day 2008, the LCers will be congratulating themselves on being responsible for thwarting the Bushitler Administration's plans to cancel elections and open up the Haliburton death camps.

 

[Dog Town]

I fully expect that on the morning after Election Day 2008, the LCers will be congratulating themselves on being responsible for thwarting the Bushitler Administration's plans to cancel elections and open up the Haliburton death camps.

Unless,...Hill C. runs. I could see the GOP slaughtering her! Heavy Woooo Potential There!!

DT

 

[R.Mackey]

I personally won't accept the word of a mechanical engineer on structural issues, nor do I think mechanical engineers are qualified to make engineering statements about structural causes of the collapse. [...]

I do think they have a body of knowledge that allows them to analyze the structural issues and present more useful information than other observers, but their knowledge is not as extensive, nor their experience as appropriate to the requirements of this type of analysis as a structural engineer.

I agree. Speaking as one in the field of Aeronautical Engineering, similar to ME but with a different focus, there are specialized tricks in each area.

Finite Element Analysis is a discipline that both structural and mechanical engineers should be exposed to. The mathematics is the same whether you model a dam or a gasket. However, it's how you use those models that matters. I've had formal training in FEM, but not much practice with steel-frame structures. Even though I can derive the equations and iterative solution approach from scratch, if I tried to set up a structural calculation, I'd probably do it wrong. I just don't have the practice in choosing reasonable materials coefficients, damping, grid generation, simplifying assumptions, etc. I'd be a fool not to consult a real structural engineer to gain his insights.

Of course, if our intrepid ME student did this, there's no reason why he couldn't run the calculation and get some reasonable answers. But here, we note that NIST has already done some rather sophisticated modeling and come up with a different answer. (Can't get to NIST right now, sorry. OMGZ0RZz!1! Teh C0NSPREC33!) It's impossible to tell, without more detail, why this anonymous model doesn't agree -- but there's probably a valid explanation. One that doesn't involve thousands of right-angle thermite charges.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Unless,...Hill C. runs. I could see the GOP slaughtering her! Heavy Woooo Potential There!!

DT

<thread derail> Or Condi Rice. If the republicans beat the dems to the punch on two of thier biggest pet issues (blacks & women) it could wreck the democrats for an entire generation. The nomination of the first ever african american woman to be president by the republicans would be an unprecedented propaganda coup.

I'd expect the CT's to respond with something even more asinine and absurd than usual like Condi as a genetically engineered psuedo-african-american, or a long lost missing black child who spent decades in a NWO re-education facility prior to being "activated" and so on and so on...
</derail>

 

[gtc]

<thread derail> Or Condi Rice. If the republicans beat the dems to the punch on two of thier biggest pet issues (blacks & women) it could wreck the democrats for an entire generation. The nomination of the first ever african american woman to be president by the republicans would be an unprecedented propaganda coup.

I'd expect the CT's to respond with something even more asinine and absurd than usual like Condi as a genetically engineered psuedo-african-american, or a long lost missing black child who spent decades in a NWO re-education facility prior to being "activated" and so on and so on...
</derail>

Well, I have already seen CTs posting cartoons of her in blackface makeup. It seems racism is bad, unless you don't agree with your opponent, then its GAME ON!

 

[Brainster]

<thread derail> Or Condi Rice. If the republicans beat the dems to the punch on two of thier biggest pet issues (blacks & women) it could wreck the democrats for an entire generation. The nomination of the first ever african american woman to be president by the republicans would be an unprecedented propaganda coup.

I'd expect the CT's to respond with something even more asinine and absurd than usual like Condi as a genetically engineered psuedo-african-american, or a long lost missing black child who spent decades in a NWO re-education facility prior to being "activated" and so on and so on...
</derail>

Talking horse race only here, not my personal politics:

Condi has no real chance for the Republican nomination right now. About the only scenario I could see is that Dick Cheney resigns for health reasons, and she gets appointed and confirmed by the Senate and thus becomes the heir apparent. She'd never make it through a Republican primary process at her current level. I'd love to have seen her take over for Cheney in 2004, but figured when she didn't that Jeb was running in 2008. Looks like that's not going to happen right now.

The most likely scenario is for her to run for Governor of California next time around and see what happens from there. She is also doing nothing to indicate her interest in running in 2008--no visits to Iowa and New Hampshire, for example.

I have assumed that the Republicans would be the first to nominate a woman or a black to the top spot, for the simple reason that it's less risky for them; they already get a majority of the white male vote and that's not likely to decline just because a woman or a black is representing the party.

But I have also long believed that Hillary will be the Democrat's nominee in 2008, and I see zero reason to conclude that's not going to happen outside of Mark Warner. Warner is trying to position himself to the right of Hillary, which means he's targeting an apparently small portion of the Democratic base as of now. Gore would have an excellent chance at the nomination if he could narrow the field to that threesome. Dark horse (which usually means favorite among the Democrats): Russ Feingold.

Hillary's gotta run; the next election in 2012 would have her defending her Senate seat at the same time. Condi doesn't have to run; she's got time to prove herself in an executive position. McCain has to run; he's too old to wait around and he's doing all the things he needs to mend his tattered right wing. Repubs tend to go with the guy whose turn it is; Ford in 1976, Reagan in 1980, Bush, Sr. in 1988, Dole in 1996. They never go with some guy out of nowhere. Giuliani is the other possibility, but I get the sense he's hoping for the VP slot or the 2012 nomination if the Republicans lose.

 

[Obviousman]

Well, I'm suspended from there again.

What for this time? I don't know. In the "Poor Gravy" thread, I said:

In my opinion, Killtown did dodge the questions. They were clearly put, and he had the opportunity to answer - but chose not to do so.

chucksheen, on the other hand, did answer the questions. I don't agree with his reasoning, but they were answered clearly.

I don't know if that was the reason for my suspension (until November this time).

The other thing I posted was on the "Newly released FAA transcripts.." thread.

They were comparing what was published by a newspaper in 2001 with the newly released transcript.

There was discussion about a section where one of the sectors said they didn't have the flight plan. I pointed out that I thought they were referring to AA11, and not AA77. JDX said this was a "good pickup". I took that to mean that they agreed.

There was further discussion about whether it might refer to a transponder (SSR). I agreed with JDX that this was not the case.

There was more discussion about why a controller wouldn't have a flight plan. I pointed out that, in my day, you manually addressed the plans to the sectors involved. Not being familiar with the US system, I asked on pprune about it. I got a reply:

On a related note, when you lodge a flight plan in the US, can all ATC stations access it or does it only go to the units concerned? In my day, we'd figure out what airspace the plan concerned was going to involve, give it the relevent routing indicators (addresses) and throw it on the AFTN. If a flight had a major diversion from its planned track or alternates, someone would have to re-route / retransmit the plan to the affected stations.

I'd imagine that with the systems of today, any station can call up a plan?

No, only those concerned can look at the flight plan. If there's a major reroute, the concerned controller just enters it in his flight data system (called URET in CONUS) and it's sent along to those that need it by the automated system. At the same time it's taken down from the sectors that no longer need it.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2776914&postcount=6

I looked up URET and passed the information on to Russell Pickering:

Russell,

According to this reply from pprune

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?...914&postcount=6

the flight plans are only sent to the stations concerned.

I'm not familiar with US airspace & don't have the charts, so you'll have to look up the sectors involved and work out if the plan would have been sent to them. That might explain why one sector did not have a copy of the plan.

The same post says that a request for the plan would be made via URET.

Here is a link to a description of URET:

http://www.caasd.org/library/papers/uret/index.html

This link is from the FAA and describes the ATC functions, so it may also be of use to you:

http://www.faa.gov/Atpubs/ATC/

This seem to generate a impression that somehow I was arguing or debating with them.

JDX then says at the end of a post:

Even if they needed a flight plan, all they need to do is pick up the landline and call the local FSS. Your spin and distraction is incredible Obviousman... here it comes again...

Presumably that is why I have been banned again.

Anyone have the e-mail addy for Dylan Avery? I want to protest this.

 

[Big Les]

I posted this thread on its own recently; probably should have gone here. Rather than bump that one, I'll add it in here where CTs and skeptics alike can see an object lesson in ill-informed CT meeting aviation professionals and coming off very much second-best.

As the posters there kept (keep?) saying, the CT is trying to draw spurious conclusions using the incorrect data, and is coming at it all wrong due to not having taken the time to familiarise himself with the technology involved. He's also doing the textbook CT ignorance of replies posts, and claiming that no-one is answering his questions when in fact either a) they are and he's not understanding them or b) they aren't, because it's not possible to give a meaningful answer. To him, either reason equates to "you can't prove me wrong!" or "you're in on it". He poses as someone trying to debunk LC, but it's pretty clear he has preconceived ideas of what 9/11 represents.

It seems to me that some people have inflated ideas of both their own self-importance, and their own intelligence. They think that they don't need multiple qualifications and years in the field to be able to analyse complicated science/engineering/whatever else issues. I think this is a social phenomenon propagated in part by the popular media and post-modernist thinking (all opinions are valid) but now I'm getting into a rant and risking coming off "inflated" myself!

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=237976&page=8

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Talking horse race only here, not my personal politics:

Condi has no real chance for the Republican nomination right now. About the only scenario I could see is that Dick Cheney resigns for health reasons, and she gets appointed and confirmed by the Senate and thus becomes the heir apparent. She'd never make it through a Republican primary process at her current level. I'd love to have seen her take over for Cheney in 2004, but figured when she didn't that Jeb was running in 2008. Looks like that's not going to happen right now.

The most likely scenario is for her to run for Governor of California next time around and see what happens from there. She is also doing nothing to indicate her interest in running in 2008--no visits to Iowa and New Hampshire, for example.

I have assumed that the Republicans would be the first to nominate a woman or a black to the top spot, for the simple reason that it's less risky for them; they already get a majority of the white male vote and that's not likely to decline just because a woman or a black is representing the party.

But I have also long believed that Hillary will be the Democrat's nominee in 2008, and I see zero reason to conclude that's not going to happen outside of Mark Warner. Warner is trying to position himself to the right of Hillary, which means he's targeting an apparently small portion of the Democratic base as of now. Gore would have an excellent chance at the nomination if he could narrow the field to that threesome. Dark horse (which usually means favorite among the Democrats): Russ Feingold.

Hillary's gotta run; the next election in 2012 would have her defending her Senate seat at the same time. Condi doesn't have to run; she's got time to prove herself in an executive position. McCain has to run; he's too old to wait around and he's doing all the things he needs to mend his tattered right wing. Repubs tend to go with the guy whose turn it is; Ford in 1976, Reagan in 1980, Bush, Sr. in 1988, Dole in 1996. They never go with some guy out of nowhere. Giuliani is the other possibility, but I get the sense he's hoping for the VP slot or the 2012 nomination if the Republicans lose.

Two names I don't want to see come up in elections for a long time are "Clinton" and "Bush".

Ironically, for similar reasons to what the truthers will tell you. Though they will put the whole bohemian grove/NWO/Bilderberg/Trilateral Commission spin on it.

The perception of America becoming the property of a pair of rotating dynasties would be bad enough by itself. If both Hillary and Jeb cared about the country, they'd step aside.

 

[sleahead]

Obviousman, Gravy's Viewer Guide gives this link to Dylan's email address: dylan@loosechange911.com. The link doesn't seem to work for me, but the email address might still be valid.

If you do get to write to him, don't forget to remind him of how he values constructive converstion on 9/11 matters, as stated in his PM to Hutch. Your post on ATC matters could not be construed as anything other than constructive comment.

 

[chipmunk stew]

Well, I have already seen CTs posting cartoons of her in blackface makeup. It seems racism is bad, unless you don't agree with your opponent, then its GAME ON!

In chucksheen's sig:

 

[Darth Rotor]

Talking horse race only here, not my personal politics:

Condi has no real chance for the Republican nomination right now. About the only scenario I could see is that Dick Cheney resigns for health reasons, and she gets appointed and confirmed by the Senate and thus becomes the heir apparent. She'd never make it through a Republican primary process at her current level. I'd love to have seen her take over for Cheney in 2004, but figured when she didn't that Jeb was running in 2008. Looks like that's not going to happen right now.

The most likely scenario is for her to run for Governor of California next time around and see what happens from there. She is also doing nothing to indicate her interest in running in 2008--no visits to Iowa and New Hampshire, for example.

I have assumed that the Republicans would be the first to nominate a woman or a black to the top spot, for the simple reason that it's less risky for them; they already get a majority of the white male vote and that's not likely to decline just because a woman or a black is representing the party.

But I have also long believed that Hillary will be the Democrat's nominee in 2008, and I see zero reason to conclude that's not going to happen outside of Mark Warner. Warner is trying to position himself to the right of Hillary, which means he's targeting an apparently small portion of the Democratic base as of now. Gore would have an excellent chance at the nomination if he could narrow the field to that threesome. Dark horse (which usually means favorite among the Democrats): Russ Feingold.

Hillary's gotta run; the next election in 2012 would have her defending her Senate seat at the same time. Condi doesn't have to run; she's got time to prove herself in an executive position. McCain has to run; he's too old to wait around and he's doing all the things he needs to mend his tattered right wing. Repubs tend to go with the guy whose turn it is; Ford in 1976, Reagan in 1980, Bush, Sr. in 1988, Dole in 1996. They never go with some guy out of nowhere. Giuliani is the other possibility, but I get the sense he's hoping for the VP slot or the 2012 nomination if the Republicans lose.

I get the feeling that Warner, unless he gets caught in a massive gaffe, is far more electable that Hillary among swing voters. Rudi is a cypher to me, but he was a decent mayor for New York, for all the whinging the left side of the fence did about him.

McCain is more dead in the water now than he was in 2000. That was his opportunity. He also had an oppourtuinty in the fall of 2002 to ask the hard questions, as he did vis a vis Clinton in Bosnia and Kosovo, and he failed to take the opportuinty. He bought the thin premise hook line and sinker.

Politically, he's still too hard to "control" by the money men funding the Republican party, IMO, to get an endorsement. They want a more tractable front man. If he ran, though, I'd vote for him, for no better reason than he was a Navy Pilot and he's not afraid to break a rice bowl here and there.

Unfortunately, and no disrespect intended to the distinguished Senator from Arizona, he's not an intellectual giant. I worry that he could be fooled or misled by his "handlers," or his advisors, on complex issues.

DR

 

[Brainster]

I posted this thread on its own recently; probably should have gone here. Rather than bump that one, I'll add it in here where CTs and skeptics alike can see an object lesson in ill-informed CT meeting aviation professionals and coming off very much second-best.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=237976&page=8

Yeah that thread cracked me up. I think he misrepresented his bona fides here:

Tong Li, phD.
SuperNova International, Inc.
1709 Thompson St.
Lansing, MI 48906

That is, unless people in the granite wholesaling business have a lot of PhD's on staff.

 

[Brainster]

I Hope This Guy Is Joking

Looks like we got another guy using the scientific method to model the collapses.

I've been burned on this stuff before (see the Hufschmid video the other day for example), so I'm not going to automatically believe this is serious. But if you check his earlier posts, it looks like Spooked 911 may have met his match.