Loose Change - Part IV

[60hzxtl]

watch this video (linked in the LC Nuke thread) they show a small video artifact and claim that this is from the EMP, I am not kidding. The entire video is only 3-4 minutes long, it is a trailer for a larger movie coming out in September. I can not believe how much stupid these people can cram into 3 minutes. My favorite part is their "20 reasons why it was a WMD" this would be great comedy if it were not about such a serious matter.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3211807290597119388&q=wmd+at+the+wtc

edited to add link

Wait - #13

Winter Garden hit by 22 foot steel beams ejected 600' from WTC 1?????


There goes the "in its own foot print" mantra.

#17 Rubble Height only 10 % of original instead of 33% for normal demolition.


See above. And while you are at it, it is not the height above street level, its the height above the foundation hole that went down 7 stories.

# 19 "decontamination" procedure seen at WTC with hi-pressure water spraying.


See # 5 - that's how they put out fires. The ones that burned until December

# 9 contradicted by # 12. Yup - cell phones and TV all in the WTC What did you think was in there? Keebler Cookies?

# 20 Uh, where were the tanks?

Another film made by a genius who wasn't there. Can't keep his story straight in a 3 minute film.


I spent an awful lot of time across the street in St. Paul's begining 5 days after. Ate a lot of meals there. Haven't noticed any radiation problems. (My hair was falling out along time before 9/11!)

 

[T.A.M.]

The funniest thing will be what it does to JohnDoeX. What on gods earth is he gonna do now, with the power limited to axing those who support his views, and noone else. He'll shrivel...Im melting, im melting, Im melting....

 

[T.A.M.]

I see August 15th as a release date for "Debunking the 9/11 Myths" the book from Popular Mechanics. I'll be ordering of Amazon on that day...

 

[negativ]

I am also fairly convinced that John Doh is not a pilot, for completely subjective reasons.

The main one is that he uses ENTIRELY too much jargon and acronyms. I have worked for 15 years in a technical field that is pretty well boiling over with acronyms and jargon, and I don't think even the nerdiest nerd among us here at Nerdville use that much jargon even when it's just insider shop-talk. Certainly we don't inflict it upon Others, unless we're trying to be intentionally obscure and/or appear smarter than we really are.

 

[CurtC]

Leaving us only the regular forums over there, I guess. I'm sure the denizens over there will love the arrival of rational thought, challenged assertions, and critical thinking into their monotone world of 9-11 conspiracy groupthink.

Don't count on hanging around too long if you try that. This was posted in the LC Lounge forum by administrator turturis:

the skeptics forum is no longer.

we arent catering to trolls, shills, or general havoc wreakers.

if you have a problem with this please leave.
if you want to research use http://google.com
if you want to debate find another forum
if you want to complain...tough

Thank you for your attention in this matter.

Turt

 

[kevin]

I am also fairly convinced that John Doh is not a pilot, for completely subjective reasons.

The main one is that he uses ENTIRELY too much jargon and acronyms.

I had the same thought, and he uses his knowledge of acronyms as proof of his superiority. I'm in computers and I don't hear people talk like that. I've hung out with cops and don't hear them talk like that either. I've hung out with emergency room nurses and don't hear them talk like that. Just not buying it that pilots use it that much either....

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

A pity I cannot post anymore. Given what everyone is reporting, I would post just one word and take my leave (it would be promptly removed by the LC Ministry of Truth, but maybe a few would see it and reflect).

Kristallnacht

Thats' all--thats' enough.

So they are left to soil their playpen by themselves now--I predict after about a week of congratulating themsleves the infighting and backbiting will begin, as will the schisms and bannings. Revolutions do tend to turn upon themselves, and the LC'ers sure seem to consider themselves revolutionaries...

We shall see.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought, "Night of the Long Knives" when this first started today.

 

[kevin]

# 19 "decontamination" procedure seen at WTC with hi-pressure water spraying.

Not sure about hi-pressure water (except perhaps for cleaning or to cover a large area) but water is one way to keep asbestos from becoming airborne and then inhaled. That would certainly qualify as decom.

 

[Darth Rotor]

A Port Authority document indicated that the impact of a Boeing 707 aircraft flying at 600 mph was analyzed during the design stage of the WTC towers. However, the investigators were unable to locate any documentation of the criteria and method used in the impact analysis and were thus unable to verify the assertion that “…such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact.” Since the ability for rigorous simulation of the aircraft impact and of the ensuing fires are recent developments and since the approach to structural modeling was developed for this Investigation, the technical capability available to The Port Authority and its consultants and contractors to perform such an analysis in the 1960s would have been quite limited.

A 707 at 600 mph (rougly 520 knots) impacting on what floor? That whole three page paper smells of fish for a few reasons. The design assumption most likely is that an airliner would be a bit low on altitude, or lost in bad weather and hit one of the top floors of the building. That probably would not get the cascading pancaking of the floors below started. You don't chop a tree down by using the ax on the top, but down low. You will note that the second aircraft hit considerabely lower on the building than the first, and IIRC, the second building fell first. (Sorry if I recall incorrectly.) Both hit well below the top floors.

Now, if the design spec (an affordable one) was to withstand an airplane typically flying at those speeds in and around the New York Approach Control's air space, you would model it for between 200 and 300 knots, per FAA Air Traffic Control Regulations for approach or takeoff. The odd take off that went haywire (think pilots with vertigo, bad weather, electrical failure of flight instruments) is not travelling at 520-600 knots.

The design difference in strength, and cost, would be immense due to the
KE = "1/2*m*V^2" (where KE is Kinetic energy, m = mass and V = velocity)

energy transfer at impact. I don't see any civil engineer, nor an architect, over desiging a building that way and keeping the contract.

For What It's Worth

DR

 

[Kent1]

Don't count on hanging around too long if you try that. This was posted in the LC Lounge forum by administrator turturis:

I'm certainly seeing an increased frustration amoung the CT'ers.
A delay in the movie and now this...sounds like trouble in the LC camp.

 

[Darth Rotor]

It is possible they're using plastic reinforcement or fiber reinforcement instead of rebar, but that isn't very common except in special cases.

I don't think so, not in 1970. I'd bet on the conventional method, due to cost and schedule.

Then again, "Plastics, Ben."

DR

 

[MarkyX]

Okay, now I need to do a Nazi picture.

 

[T.A.M.]

I think you'll find posting way down over at LC now. Who will Jennabell and JohnDoeX argue with. Just as well...leave them to their flawed research. I think with the new PM book due out, and with others catching on to their crap, it won't be long before their house of cards comes crumbling down...

 

[apathoid]

I am also fairly convinced that John Doh is not a pilot, for completely subjective reasons.

The main one is that he uses ENTIRELY too much jargon and acronyms. I have worked for 15 years in a technical field that is pretty well boiling over with acronyms and jargon, and I don't think even the nerdiest nerd among us here at Nerdville use that much jargon even when it's just insider shop-talk. Certainly we don't inflict it upon Others, unless we're trying to be intentionally obscure and/or appear smarter than we really are.

Spot on! I've been convinced since I read his first post. When I first asked him what he flew, he said something to the effect of "MEI CFII ATP - do you know what that means? look it up " I knew exactly what it meant, but thats not something an airline pilot 20 years removed from earning those certificates would say. Later he said something like "I have XXX hours on the Honeywell XXXX" Uhhh, those arent airplanes, jonny boy!

 

[T.A.M.]

It is funny, with all the times he pointed to "evidence" on things, that he never once provided a scan of his licence, or credentials, or anything.

JohnDoeX, if your out there, that would be a great start to proving you are actually an expert on the field you claim to be, as well as some recent photos fo you next to one of your current planes.

 

[kevin]

A 707 at 600 mph (rougly 520 knots) impacting on what floor?

Only the summary is available, not the actual calcs so this isn't known. A later study was done for an impact at the 80th floor, but it was to analyze building sway only.

I don't see any civil engineer, nor and architect, over desiging a building that way and keeping the contract.

Do you know many structural engineers? All the ones I know (and I work for an engineering company) would exactly overdesign a building that way. Architects don't design structural systems for buildings so they would not do so.

The building was designed to withstand wind forces larger than the building codes required, so they had already overdesigned there.

 

[sleahead]

Yep, I'm done too until 2009. I wonder if they purged the Bad Astronomy folks that were doing so well (and so politely) on the Moon Hoax thread so DavidC could claim 'victory' in that topic as well.

I guess the One True Religion could not abide heretics...especially inteliigent, skeptical ones (they're always the worse, you know )

Going to be a run on badges.

Edited to add--I'm locked out from home too boot. So my days on the LC Forum are done.

Hutch, I'm stunned. You and Dylan were getting on so well. Remember that sweet PM he sent you after the museum debacle just two days ago?. Now I see that PM as a cynical attempt to distance himself from the purge that he knew was coming.

 

[MarkyX]

Anyone got a link to that "We won't cater to skeptics" anymore, essentially acting like nazis?

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Anyone got a link to that "We won't cater to skeptics" anymore, essentially acting like nazis?

just to shine them on i should tell them to hotlink the skeptics forum to SLC, lol

 

[kevin]

I don't think so, not in 1970. I'd bet on the conventional method, due to cost and schedule.

Then again, "Plastics, Ben."

DR

I was referring to the picture of the NEW building going up that had a concrete core -- it's being built now. A comment was made that it didn't have rebar in concrete and I doubted it.

The WTC did not have a concrete core, so no reinforcement of any kind there.