Loose Change - Part III

[Brainster]

lgf is Little Green Footballs I believe.

Yes, here's a post by Charles that goes into Dylan's LGF trolling phase.

 

[Mancman]

I don't understand. Can you elaborate?

JonDoe claims that Billzilla cannot be a pilot because he has a beard that would apparently reduce the effectiveness of the seal of an emergency mask. The FAA prohibits such facial hair, apparently. Though jondoe didn't seem to care that Billzilla never flies to the US and thus is not governed by FAA regulations anyway.

 

[Belz...]

I assume you guys must be speaking about the little space cadet meeting on saturday. Quite funny that Dylan and Jason were held to the last portion of the party and even then Dylann was cut off because AJ realized that Dylan is a supreme brown noser.

[...]

Keep defending ground zero.

Take care everyone.

Sentinel

Wow. Your sentences are actually coherent, now.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Yes, here's a post by Charles that goes into Dylan's LGF trolling phase.

Here's the from '03

9/9/2003: Nazimedia: Love Me, Daddy!

The foul antisemites at Nazimedia, dropped from Google News for their insane hatred of Israel, are now trying to lash out at LGF by getting the drones to complain to Amazon and Paypal about us: Independent Media Center. Aren’t they sweet? The Morlock who posted this is probably the one who was looking for love from his daddy here under the name “Dylan Avery” recently, and he accompanies this rant with the usual libelous, badly Photoshopped picture that lends so much credibility to their cause.

UPDATE: If you’d like to help counteract this latest Indymedia smear campaign by expressing support for LGF at Amazon and Paypal, here are the pages where you can do so:

Amazon.com: Help / Contact Us / General Questions

PayPal - Help Center
posted by Charles at 10:03 PM PST | rss
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link: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=8132&only
link to comments: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=8132_Nazimedia-_Love_Me_Daddy!#comments

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Here's a conspriacy theory: Did the LC forum mods make JDX and admin to shut him up?

It's pretty obvious that they don't care if they have a reputation of being ban-happy. I know of no activist movement or similar entity that has suffered at all from employing ban-happy board mods. But JDX is the only person I can think of off the top of my head who has issued threats of physical violence or even lethal force (ie "Hey Billzilla, come over here so I can excersize my 2nd amendment rights on you").

I would suggest that JDX is less likely to toss around death threats to intimidate people into withholding thier opinions if he can simply ban them, delete thier posts and then claim victory.

This is of course, all just speculation.

 

[T.A.M.]

I just finished reading the link to the LGF site and D.A.s comments. Make no wonder he hides behind his wingnut kooks over at the LC Forum. The Guy is extremely poor when it comes to his communication or debating skills.

 

[Trifikas]

Mild attempt to re-steer the ship...

Pertaining to S. Jones's paper regarding Sulphur found at WTC, I'm not sure I've seen it mentioned but is Sulphur going to be found after the thermite burns? Any chemists / experts know the results of the Thermite reaction, and would Sulphur still be detectable afterwards?

the thermite find gets bandied about on the IMDB board for LC2...

Trif

 

[T.A.M.]

Sulfur is so common it is scary. The absence of Sulfur anywhere in the WTC site would be more suspicious.

Sulfur is a part of rubber, and a part of gypsum (drywall is made from this).

The list goes on...

 

[Trifikas]

Sulfur is so common it is scary. The absence of Sulfur anywhere in the WTC site would be more suspicious.

Sulfur is a part of rubber, and a part of gypsum (drywall is made from this).

The list goes on...

I remember that part of the discussion, but I would like to simply stop the sulpher argument by being able to prove that any sulphur found couldn't have been from a thermite reaction, If indeed that is the case. I just don't know enough about the chemestry behind it.

Would detectable sulphur be left behind after thermite burns itself down, or is it consumed in the equation?

ETA: Presumably, if the Sulphur was completly consumed, you would have to find actual unused thermite at GZ; just finding Sulphur would be provably meaningless.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Mild attempt to re-steer the ship...

Pertaining to S. Jones's paper regarding Sulphur found at WTC, I'm not sure I've seen it mentioned but is Sulphur going to be found after the thermite burns? Any chemists / experts know the results of the Thermite reaction, and would Sulphur still be detectable afterwards?

the thermite find gets bandied about on the IMDB board for LC2...

Trif

Background: Two major types of metal incendiaries exist, those that are magnesium based and those of the thermite/thermate type. Most types generally are encountered only in the military or industrial setting.

Magnesium, a silvery white metal of atomic weight 24.32, ignites at 632°C and burns at 1982°C, with magnesium oxide (MgO) as its combustion product. In an exothermic reaction, metallic magnesium can ignite to produce magnesium dihydroxide (ie, Mg(OH)2) and hydrogen. Magnesium is used in either powdered or solid form as an incendiary agent for both illumination and antipersonnel purposes. Various alloys of magnesium (eg, aluminum/zinc/magnesium alloy found in US M126 round) are mechanically sturdier but also can be ignited easily.

Thermite is a mixture of powdered or granular aluminum and powdered iron oxide. When combined with other substances, such as binders, the material is termed a "thermate." All such materials react vigorously when heated to the combustion temperature of aluminum. This reaction produces aluminum oxide, elemental iron, and sufficient heat to melt the iron. The reaction temperature is approximately 2200°C.

Because the burning temperature of these chemicals is so high, standard hazardous-materials clothing (even Level A self-contained and chemical-proof clothing) is not protective.

Pathophysiology: Burning thermite or magnesium produces predominantly thermal injury, but residual particles (especially of magnesium) may produce chemical injury to the eyes, skin, and respiratory tract.

source: http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic917.htm

Black or blue iron oxide (Fe3O4), produced by oxidizing iron in an oxygen-rich environment under high heat, is the most commonly used thermite oxidizing agent because it is inexpensive and easily produced. Red iron (III) oxide (Fe2O3, commonly known as rust) can also be used to make thermite but yields a less energetic reaction. Other oxides are occasionally used, such as in manganese thermite and chromium thermite, but only for highly specialized purposes. Both examples use aluminium as the reactive metal.

In principle, any reactive metal could be used instead of aluminum. This is rarely done, however, because the properties of aluminium are ideal for this reaction. It is by far the cheapest of the highly reactive metals; it also forms a passivation layer making it safer to handle than many other reactive metals. The melting and boiling points of aluminum also make it ideal for thermite reactions. Its relatively low melting point (660°C, 1221°F) means that it is easy to melt the metal, so that the reaction can occur mainly in the liquid phase[1] and thus proceeds fairly quickly. At the same time, its high boiling point (2519°C, 4566°F) enables the reaction to reach very high temperatures, since several processes tend to limit the maximum temperature to just below the boiling point.[2] Such a high boiling point is common among transition metals (e.g. iron and copper boil at 2887°C and 2582°C respectively), but is especially unusual among the highly reactive metals (cf. magnesium and sodium which boil at 1090°C and 883°C respectively).

Although the reactants are stable at room temperature, they burn with an extremely intense exothermic reaction when they are heated to ignition temperature. The products emerge as liquids due to the high temperatures reached (up to 2500°C (4532°F) with iron (III) oxide)—although the actual temperature reached depends on how quickly heat can escape to the surrounding environment. Thermite contains its own supply of oxygen and does not require any external source of air. Consequently, it cannot be smothered and may ignite in any environment, given sufficient initial heat. It will burn well while wet and cannot be extinguished with water. Small amounts of water will boil before reaching the reaction. If thermite is ignited underwater, the molten iron produced will extract oxygen from water and generate hydrogen gas in a single-replacement reaction. This gas may, in turn, burn by combining with oxygen in the air.
...
When thermite is made using iron (III) oxide, for maximum efficiency it should contain, by mass, 25.3% aluminum and 74.7% iron oxide. (This mixture is sold under the brand name Thermit as a heat source for welding.) The complete formula for the reaction using iron (III) oxide is as follows:

Fe2O3(s) + 2Al(s) → Al2O3(s) + 2Fe(s); ΔH = -851.5 kJ/mol

When thermite is made using iron (II,III) oxide, for maximum efficiency it should contain, by mass, 23.7% aluminium and 76.3% iron oxide. The formula for the reaction using iron (II,III) oxide:

3Fe3O4(s) + 8Al(s) → 4Al2O3(s) + 9Fe(s); ΔH = -3347.6 kJ/mol

The reaction using Fe3O4 produces a substantially larger amount of energy pr. mol reaction than the reaction using Fe2O3, which produces more energy pr. gram of thermite mixture.
...

source: wikipedia.org

13–23. Chemical Group D fillers
a. Thermite (TH). TH, a mixture of iron oxide, aluminum, and other substances, is a dark gray granular mass that
requires an igniter to start burning; it burns with great rapidity at a temperature of 4300 degress F, with the iron oxide
being reduced to molten iron. Thermate is a mixture of TH aluminum, barium nitrate, sulfur, and lubricating oil.

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...due+-wtc+-9/11+-911&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=31

 

[MarkyX]

Thanks for the information...but stop posting and finish your video, already!

Heh, it's uploaded on Google Video, but they need to verify it.

I'm going to split them up into 5 parts now and post em on YouTube.

 

[Shrinker]

I posted a review on IMDB http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0831315/usercomments-8

I believe you can indicate your approval or disapproval at the bottom of the page.

 

[kevin]

IMO, the best way to shutdown the thermite argument is with commonly available videos.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=thermite

Checkout the Screen Savers video. They put 4 lbs of thermite in a computer case. It destroys the contents, but the case remains! Check out the other experiments and you'll see thermite started from a flower pot will take out the bottom of the pot, but not the sides.

How the heck could you take out a vertical column with this stuff?

 

[defaultdotxbe]

i thought it was funny on that c-span show the other day at the end when jones was talking about the sulfur making it burn faster he kept making vertical chopping motions with his hand, i thought the thermite was cutting horizontally across the columns steve?

 

[tacodaemon]

I just finished reading the link to the LGF site and D.A.s comments. Make no wonder he hides behind his wingnut kooks over at the LC Forum. The Guy is extremely poor when it comes to his communication or debating skills.

You know, the stuff Dylan was peddling on Indymedia and LGF back in early 2003 would seem to put a dent in his claims that Loose Change was originally supposed to be a fictional film and only in the course of making it did he come around to 9/11 conspiracy arguments.

 

[MarkyX]

Somewhat not related, but a lot of theorists like to claim that Al-Qaeda ("The Base") was named after the CIA for short as "The Database", as in a Database of Muslims against the soviets. Of course, the only thing the United States did was supply arms and some funding, back when they were called "Maktab al-Khadamat" (Office of Services, MAK), founders being Osama Bin Laden and Abdullah Yusuf Azzam.

Osama Bin Laden, again, debunks this myth.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/02/05/binladen.transcript/index.html

We have one religion, one God, one book, one prophet, one nation. Our book teaches us to be brothers of a faith. All the Muslims are brothers. The name "al Qaeda" was established a long time ago by mere chance. The late Abu Ebeida El-Banashiri established the training camps for our mujahedeen against Russia's terrorism. We used to call the training camp al Qaeda [meaning "the base" in English]. And the name stayed. We speak about the conscience of the nation; we are the sons of the nation. We brothers in Islam from the Middle East, Philippines, Malaysia, India, Pakistan and as far as Mauritania.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

of course osama (tim osman) bin laden will say whatever the CIA wants him too, lol

/sarcasm

 

[T.A.M.]

So I have decided to produce a very "matter of fact" but informative video called "Reality Check! Debunking the Myths of 9/11". It will basically be a video presentation of a lot of the info we have, but in a form joe public can access from google video.

Right now I am working on Part 1 - The Hijackers

The more of this stuff we do, the more the masses will have available in order to make an informed decision on their beliefs of 9/11.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

if anyone wants to host full-quality mpgs or avis let me know and i can throw them on my website, i get 500gb a month and last month i use 1.5, lol

 

[T.A.M.]

defaultdotxbe:
sounds great. I might take you up on it.

MarkyX:
What is the name of your video(s)?