Loose Change and Chrétien

[SDC]

Only if you throw in Vegas. With the liberal drinking laws, once we start selling real beer there, they won't be able to put up a fight!

I am confused. Do you mean Fred "Two Left Feet" Vegas, starting shortstop for the Toledo Mud Hens?

 

[Darth Rotor]

I feel much more kindly toward the ex PM than I once did.

He done good.

DR

 

[Segnosaur]

It mandates that federal elections be held on the third Monday of October four years after the last federal election...

Damn. That's a change we just really didn't need IMO.

Well, there ARE both advantages and disadvantages.

The biggest advantage is that it prevents a prime minister from calling an early "snap" election just because he thinks its winnable. (If I remember correctly, Chretien actually did that twice, in both cases the election was called with less than 4 years of their mandate used up and despite the fact that there were no overwhelming issues that the government would have thought necessary to get a mandate from the people.)

 

[Segnosaur]

I miss Chretien. No, I never voted for him, but compared to the politicians we have right now in Ottawa, Chretien was a king. The guy had balls of steel, and even if he sometimes looked like a moron, he was in the end a pretty good leader.

Just for not joining the US in Iraq, he deserves respect. At the time, not agreeing with our US neighbor was considered the height of arrogance.

Have to disagree here...

At the time that the Canadian government was debating going into Iraq, Quebec was close to calling a provincial election. Support against the invasion was particularly high in Quebec, so by not supporting the invasion he was helping his provincial Liberal counterparts.

If the guy really had 'balls of steel' he may have said "We're going into Iraq, and who cares if it decimates the provincial wing of the party". Instead, it was a crass political decision which was beneficial to him.

 

[D'rok]

Well, there ARE both advantages and disadvantages.

The biggest advantage is that it prevents a prime minister from calling an early "snap" election just because he thinks its winnable. (If I remember correctly, Chretien actually did that twice, in both cases the election was called with less than 4 years of their mandate used up and despite the fact that there were no overwhelming issues that the government would have thought necessary to get a mandate from the people.)

That was one of the advantages. It depends on where you stand on the effective govt vs. checked/balanced govt issue. It's an important political tool both as a party whip (sledgehammer style) and as a means to keep the opposition honest.

Plus, I like voting.

(It's hopeless now...this thread is derailed.)

 

[D'rok]

Have to disagree here...

At the time that the Canadian government was debating going into Iraq, Quebec was close to calling a provincial election. Support against the invasion was particularly high in Quebec, so by not supporting the invasion he was helping his provincial Liberal counterparts.

If the guy really had 'balls of steel' he may have said "We're going into Iraq, and who cares if it decimates the provincial wing of the party". Instead, it was a crass political decision which was beneficial to him.

It also would have decimated the already fragile federal Liberals in most of the country. There were sound political reasons not to go and there were sound moral reasons. IMO, he considered both, and bravo, even if the political reasons were at the forefront.

 

[Madalch]

If the guy really had 'balls of steel' he may have said "We're going into Iraq, and who cares if it decimates the provincial wing of the party". Instead, it was a crass political decision which was beneficial to him.

Having watched this occur from Alberta, where the premier and half the province wanted to help invade Iraq, I can say that Chretien was being more courageous than you give him credit for.

 

[D'rok]

Having watched this occur from Alberta, where the premier and half the province wanted to help invade Iraq, I can say that Chretien was being more courageous than you give him credit for.

I'm not so sure about that. (The bit about Alberta). I watched this occur from Alberta as well. In fact, that was the first and only time I have gone out into the streets and marched in protest of something. Tens of thousands of my fellow Edmontonians did the same and repeatedly.

Mind you, Edmonton is the sane half of Alberta.

 

[Segnosaur]

Having watched this occur from Alberta, where the premier and half the province wanted to help invade Iraq, I can say that Chretien was being more courageous than you give him credit for.

But the Liberals didn't really have much support in Alberta, and there was little or no chance that they would actually be gaining any. So, going against the wishes of Alberta (especially when doing so helps you in other provinces) isn't really courageous, its safe politics.

In fact, I'd have to say that most parties probably find Alberta more useful as a whipping boy than anything else....

 

[Corsair 115]

In semi-related news, it looks like the U.S. requirement for passports or other similar form of secure documentation for crossing into the U.S. by land might be delayed yet again.

In the spending bill presented to Congress, a passage was added by a New York state representative do delay the implementation until June of 2009 (the current deadline is June of 2008).

A report on this by CTV can be found here.

 

[Madalch]

Mind you, Edmonton is the sane half of Alberta.

I was in Red Deer at the time. A few Red Deerians marched against the war, a lot more of them marched in a pro-US demonstration, called Chretien a coward, and a few of them (Ralphie included) started talking about separating from Canada or starting up a separate Alberta Armed Forces.

Chretien may not have risked more than one or two seats in Alberta, but he sure as smeg mobilized the right-wingers there.

 

[D'rok]

I was in Red Deer at the time. A few Red Deerians marched against the war, a lot more of them marched in a pro-US demonstration, called Chretien a coward, and a few of them (Ralphie included) started talking about separating from Canada or starting up a separate Alberta Armed Forces.

Chretien may not have risked more than one or two seats in Alberta, but he sure as smeg mobilized the right-wingers there.

I have a hard time believing that Klein talked about separation. Are you sure you're remembering that part correctly?

Red Deer is fundie batsh*t crazy though.

 

[Madalch]

I have a hard time believing that Klein talked about separation. Are you sure you're remembering that part correctly?

He didn't bring the subject up, but I'm quite sure he spoke agreeably about the subject when it was broached.

 

[EvilTB]

I suspect the civilians of Texas have the whole US Army outgunned.

But you have to understand that I'm a East Coast Limousine Liberal, sipping chablis and nibbling on quiche or brie or something else with a French name.

OK, so Texas is out... Do you want Louisiana? They had a lot of people who were deported from Quebec (?), say 200+ years ago. And they have a lot of French place names.

Oh heck. Take Detroit. It's almost a suburb of Windsor anyhow.

They were deported from Nova Scotia.

 

[Morrigan]

I have newfound respect for the old guy. Despite the "proof is a proof that's been proven" and other gaffes, this was great.