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Looking for statistics help

I like this as a follow-on test - for now I think the 1 in 6 is easier to do the stats and share the stats with my dowser friend. I have some contacts in the local university (WNMU in Silver City NM) so if/when my test finds a dowser with extraordinary skill, I would try to get a class interested in running their own test - take a crack at that million $ :)
 
Doing it in the Garage. You might get arguments like well the washer or Dryer in here is it affected my dowsing. Or there a Pipe under the house that has water, Oh it could be the Septic Tank that affecting my dowsing.

So if you really want to make it Fair. Do it outside in the Field and Rotate him a few times so he can't use a known location that has water as a excuse of a Failure.
 
Doing it in the Garage. You might get arguments like well the washer or Dryer in here is it affected my dowsing. Or there a Pipe under the house that has water, Oh it could be the Septic Tank that affecting my dowsing.

So if you really want to make it Fair. Do it outside in the Field and Rotate him a few times so he can't use a known location that has water as a excuse of a Failure.

Wherever it's done, have the claimant first do a dry run without targets,and then an unblinded run with the targets in place. This should eliminate environmental interference.
 
Hi Kate Rauner,

Welcome to the forum. I have a couple of quick suggestions, which might make things a little easier. First, if you are putting the target(s) under cardboard boxes (which I recommend), then there's no need to have anything filled with sand. There's either water under the box or there's nothing. That saves the work of filling a bunch of containers with sand. I also recommend upping the number of cardboard boxes to 10. I, like you and most other people, are not very good with statistics. It's much easier for me to figure out and understand a one in ten chance on each trial. Because of that, I also recommend not having the potential of multiple targets in a single trial---just have one. It saves work in that you only need one bucket or jug, and it saves work in figuring out the stats. It also makes it easier to understand in the end for the average member of the public.

Otherwise, it sounds like you are on the right track.

May I ask what your friend does for a living? People who believe they have the ability to dowse often work in a field where that skill would come in handy, like surveying or geology or plumbing.

Also, where do you live (generally)? What is the group that did the experiment with the popcorn? It's exciting to have local active groups like that.

Thanks,
Ward
 
GREAT topic and loved all the follow ups ... THIS is the reason I originally joined the JREF Forums (not just dowsing but it's my favourite) ... Until my late 20's I was convinced (actually flatout TOLD by my parents) that dowsing and Ouija boards etc were all 100% legit

... then I started getting skeptical .......... :)

.. now as an adult I am in love with Logic! :)
 
GREAT topic and loved all the follow ups ... THIS is the reason I originally joined the JREF Forums (not just dowsing but it's my favourite) ... Until my late 20's I was convinced (actually flatout TOLD by my parents) that dowsing and Ouija boards etc were all 100% legit

... then I started getting skeptical .......... :)

.. now as an adult I am in love with Logic! :)

Good choice - but don't let the Dowsers douse you!!!!!
 
What, has this place become a place to moralise all of a sudden.

As with all dowsing challenges it's best if videotaped. (I'm showing my age).

If you do tape the proceedings you need to people to use the camera. One will tape the set up and the other will tape the test itself. Neither person should be able to see what is happening to the part they are not filming. Ditto for everyone else. Otherwise someone might give clues about where the water is.
 
Successful Dowsing Experiment

Hi all - My dowser friend and I tested his skills, using the attached protocol. Everything went well and we were all (my husband recorded the data for the dowser) satisfied the test was fair. And the results are...

Three hits in ten trials - my dowser had said in advance he expected at least 5 hits and, using MS Excel's BINOMDIST, 3 hits has a 15.5% probability by chance, and was well under the 50% or better the dowser expected.

As I mentioned, the dowser is my friend and I am happy to say he is still my friend. He was bemused by the results, but did not try to explain the results away. He said several times "I thought I'd do better" and things like "but I feel them move, I'm not making them move." (He used a pair of wires bent at 90 degrees.) He told us a few stories about dowsers he thinks are successful and admitted that he's had several dowsers go over his property and while they shared some hits, they also had unique hits.

Thanks :) to everyone for your suggestions and assistance. If you're interested, I've included some details about the area I live below.

Grant County New Mexico is in the state's dry SW. My immediate area is mountainous (my house is at 6905 ft elevation). I live on a thick layer of Lake Valley Limestone over Percha Shale, but the water is deep in a lower layer of dolomite (I think it may be a water-bearing layer with dolomite above and below.) As you travel east from Silver City towards the Rio Mimbres Valley, hitting water gets deeper and chancier. Drillers often hit "cracks" and "lose circulation" which means they can't continue drilling. Sometimes cracks can be filled with concrete and they keep drilling, but often pumping concrete has no effect before they give up. Some holes suck air in - some suck very strongly. Every time I hear a dowser talk about underground rivers I wonder if there are caverns deep below me - maybe there is a "lake" down there someplace..

Dry holes are fairly common (the State posts well data) and yet there are a few shallow wells. Some wells produce low flows, some ten times more, and such differences are found on adjoining properties. In my immediate neighborhood half the holes were abandoned due to cracks or "dry." ("Dry" may mean the owner ran out of money before hitting the water or they may have gone what seems from the State data far enough but were unlucky.)

Hitting water is very important and expensive and the outcome uncertain. As my driller told me - "I'm a well driller, not a hole driller." They hate dry holes - some drillers refuse to work in my area because of that. It's the perfect situation to develop superstitions. All the drillers use dowsers in my area (they each seem to have a favorite), but south of us in flat land around Deming, as one driller told me, there's an aquifer and he can say within 5 feet when he'll hit water and he never dowses.

To answer a question you may have - yes, I paid my driller to dowse my well (both of them - I also have a crack-stopped dry hole.) I told him the area I wanted and he found a spot to drill. I knew it would be a deep and difficult well - I wanted him to feel good about the job so he'd stick with it. And I do have a well - about 2.5 GPM - hurray. My dowser-neighbor also has a crack-stopped dry hole and a well. His water is just about the same amount and depth as mine. Go figure.
 

Attachments

Hi all - My dowser friend and I tested his skills, using the attached protocol. Everything went well and we were all (my husband recorded the data for the dowser) satisfied the test was fair. And the results are...

Three hits in ten trials - my dowser had said in advance he expected at least 5 hits and, using MS Excel's BINOMDIST, 3 hits has a 15.5% probability by chance, and was well under the 50% or better the dowser expected.

Why did he only have a 50% expectation? Dowsing should work or it doesn't.
 
As I mentioned, the dowser is my friend and I am happy to say he is still my friend.

I'm glad that you were successful in this regard. That may be the hardest part of being skeptical.

The rest of your post was also interesting and thanks for sharing your experience.
 
Nice work indeed.

He was bemused by the results, but did not try to explain the results away. He said several times "I thought I'd do better" and things like "but I feel them move, I'm not making them move."
I trust you told him to google 'ideomotor effect'.
 
He said he's "not an expert." And - now I'm guessing - he really expected 100% but wanted to give himself some wiggle room. There are other things I can quibble on - he asked that the buckets be spaced 10 feet apart so there'd be no interference, but he's told me he can find other things within a few inches. Maybe the risk of a test is a little unnerving.
 
'ideomotor effect', that is. We've talked about it. He has some books on dowsing and has said some story will sound believable and then go off into lala land, so he doesn't just lap everything up. But he also has dowsing friends, so it gets reinforced. Maybe he'll try the test on other friends!
 

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