Looking for Skeptics

[wardenclyffe]

Thanks Pixel42 and to any ASKE members who are lurking.

Ward

 

[Donn]

My thanks to Pixel and ASKE too. I done forgot!

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Am I the only person who is a little disappointed in the investigation? It relied purely on people declaring whether or not they could hear changes in the audio. This thread, with it's cryptographic hash functions actually contained more thorough and more scientific testing of the claims.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Am I the only person who is a little disappointed in the investigation? It relied purely on people declaring whether or not they could hear changes in the audio. This thread, with it's cryptographic hash functions actually contained more thorough and more scientific testing of the claims.

Agreed. Mind you, we didn't come up with that test for quite a while. ASKE were still beginning with their enquiries.

Although perhaps they should have read this thread.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Notice flaccon wants the recordings copied, then copied, then played to her over the telephone?

She hasn't got the first clue about distortion. Unless it's about distorting the material to suit her disturbing beliefs. Similarly, intentionally making herself bleed.

Yes, it's disturbing. But I keep reading in the hope that someone will get through to her.

 

[Pixel42]

Am I the only person who is a little disappointed in the investigation? It relied purely on people declaring whether or not they could hear changes in the audio. This thread, with it's cryptographic hash functions actually contained more thorough and more scientific testing of the claims.

It's also not clear to me what the final verdict was following flaccon's objections, and whether any further investigation is being considered.

 

[pakeha]

It's also not clear to me what the final verdict was following flaccon's objections, and whether any further investigation is being considered.

True, though my reading of that article was that flaccon's claims were being put to rest.

We never had any follow through on the Press involvement, correct me if I'm wrong. I wonder how that turned out.

 

[Garrette]

I am not disappointed in the test since it was merely a preliminary test to determine if further, more serious, testing was warranted. As such, I think it fit the bill nicely.

 

[Pixel42]

We never had any follow through on the Press involvement, correct me if I'm wrong. I wonder how that turned out.

I don't remember flaccon's full name, perhaps someone who does can google it together with Chester and see if anything appeared in any of her local newspapers.

 

[Agatha]

Thanks for the link, Pixel. The report of flaccon deliberately injuring herself to produce her bloodstained 'pictures' is quite disturbing, I hope she gets some help.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I am not disappointed in the test since it was merely a preliminary test to determine if further, more serious, testing was warranted. As such, I think it fit the bill nicely.

It should still be empirical, if possible, and not rely on anybody's interpretation of anything. It should be an objective test, not a subjective one.

The tester also seems to have misunderstood the nature of the claims somewhat, as he talks about putting a file on a memory stick as it wouldn't be able to alter there - yet flaccon claims that a file altered anywhere will alter everywhere.

 

[Garrette]

It should still be empirical, if possible, and not rely on anybody's interpretation of anything. It should be an objective test, not a subjective one.

The tester also seems to have misunderstood the nature of the claims somewhat, as he talks about putting a file on a memory stick as it wouldn't be able to alter there - yet flaccon claims that a file altered anywhere will alter everywhere.

You are probably correct, and if I were in a position in which my role was to ensure such testing, I would probably attempt to do better than was done at ASKE. My problem, I suppose, is that as an outsider looking in I find it difficult at times not to use the sniff test and move on, particularly when the claimant so obviously needs help rather than attention.

I concede the point.

 

[AdMan]

Thanks for the link, Pixel. The report of flaccon deliberately injuring herself to produce her bloodstained 'pictures' is quite disturbing, I hope she gets some help.

Agreed. Someone who has been injuring herself, however lightly, to produce bloodstains in which she can detect patterns or images sounds to me like someone who needs medical attention before she goes much further.

 

[Donn]

I like her new twist — the one that says once she plays your file on her computer, your computer is forever infested with spirits and off the table for any future testing.

That's gonna cut into the pool of willing testers.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I like her new twist — the one that says once she plays your file on her computer, your computer is forever infested with spirits and off the table for any future testing.

That's not what was reported. It was that the tester taking his laptop round her house the spirits entered it and altered it. That would be the "calibration" flaccon has often talked about.

 

[tsig]

Agreed. Someone who has been injuring herself, however lightly, to produce bloodstains in which she can detect patterns or images sounds to me like someone who needs medical attention before she goes much further.

Self-harm is listed in the DSM-IV-TR as a symptom of borderline personality disorder. However patients with other diagnoses may also self-harm, including those with depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, eating disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder, schizophrenia, and several personality disorders

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-harm

There is help out there:

Cutting & Self-Harm
Self-Injury Help, Support, and Treatment

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/self_injury.htm

 

[Donn]

That's not what was reported. It was that the tester taking his laptop round her house the spirits entered it and altered it. That would be the "calibration" flaccon has often talked about.

I might be wrong, but that's the way I read this bit, towards the end on pg 11:

I should add here that during the course of our email exchanges C had warned me that once I had performed the test and she had downloaded a recording from me, my PC ‘will be of no use for further demonstrations because if the spirits manage to tune into it, any future recordings you make will show signs of (i.e.) distorted noise, quiet “natural hiss” gone decibels louder, or even actual voices’.

 

[wardenclyffe]

Am I the only person who is a little disappointed in the investigation? It relied purely on people declaring whether or not they could hear changes in the audio. This thread, with it's cryptographic hash functions actually contained more thorough and more scientific testing of the claims.

I'll agree that it's disappointing, but I find this thread no less disappointing. I doubt we will ever get any real satisfaction from someone like flaccon. The best we can hope for is to make an honest effort even if it will peter out in a whimper, as the AKSE investigation did and as this thread has (so far). Some claimants are simply incapable of participating in a proper test (or their spirit voices refuse).

So kudos to ASKE for making the effort to show that flaccon cannot be tested even face to face, but we'd already been down that road with flaccon and Alderbank before, so it should surprise no one.

Ward

 

[Scordatura]

Thank you Pixel42, Dr. Heap, ASKE, Alderbank, Alice Shortcake. Also, thanks to those who created recordings, analyzed recordings, emailed or uploaded recordings, explained pareidolia and what moving the goalpost meant.

Thanks for the link. This will not deter Flaccon in her beliefs. However, I think it should be noted by any and all "believers" that skeptics are willing to go to great lengths to interpret and test their claims in the most fair manner possible.

I agree that she's not yet ready to consider alternate (i.e. natural) explanations for her claims; last week yet another odd audio file appeared on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBcH797SOT0

Is this part of a new investigation? It's on her daughter's page but flaccon is a subscriber so she's aware of the recordings. Oh, and it's a public page, not private.

I sure hope only a few of the dozens of bloodstains in flaccon's album came from pricking herself. I also hope she was truthful when she said she continues to report to her GP. Maybe now he'll refer her to a specialist to help her sort out some of her beliefs.

Scordatura

 

[trustbutverify]

Am I the only person who is a little disappointed in the investigation? It relied purely on people declaring whether or not they could hear changes in the audio. This thread, with it's cryptographic hash functions actually contained more thorough and more scientific testing of the claims.

100% correct. Even a preliminary test should have been based on objective criteria.