Looking for Skeptics

[Pixel42]

It is not necessary to go to Randi's location to conduct an MDC test. As long as the protocol defines procedures to be followed, including location, then the test can be conducted anywhere where those conditions are met.

Meant to reply to this earlier.

I did consider explaining this to flaccon at the beginning but it makes more sense for her to work with people in the same time zone initially. I'm not sure if JREF still insist on the media/academic requirements before accepting an application, but I know they've said they'd waive them for anyone who had already won one of the smaller prizes. Plus their main requirement is, of course, a willingness by the applicant to submit to objective testing, so it was worth waiting until it was clear that was the case before bringing her the good news that she doesn't actually need to fly in order to take the MDC.

 

[Pixel42]

flaccon: do you agree to use any of test protocols that have been suggested? A straight yes or no, please, and if yes, which protocol do you prefer. Alderbank needs to know in order to decide if it's worth her making the trip to meet you this afternoon.

 

[Stray Cat]

Mojo, if you think for moment, that I'm going come over as even crazier as I have done so far, without the Alderbank experiment's, think again. Once it's established that it is supernatural, I'll talk till I drop with their explanation's.

Flaccon, it's not going to get "established" until you focus on developing a strict protocol for the proposed test.

Until you start answering the questions that are directly about those issues and until you start to give unambiguous answers to those questions, we are knitting fog.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Mojo, if you think for moment, that I'm going come over as even crazier as I have done so far, without the Alderbank experiment's, think again. Once it's established that it is supernatural, I'll talk till I drop with their explanation's.

Flaccon,
See bolded words. Note that I didn't write "word's". Please, in the name of all that is decent, cease with the superfluous apostrophes. An apostrophe does not join a sentence on a whim. It has a specific use, to denote a plural possessive or a contraction.
Yes, we're joking,.... but it is really distracting.

ETA: Bwahaha! I was so caught up in "plural" that I mis-stated my penultimate sentence. (See strikeover.)

 

[Cassidy]

I would suggest more tests with fewer cards - just one suit. With a full deck, that leaves the door open for it to be argued that the spirits saying "Four of Diamonds" is nearly a hit for the 4 of hearts, as it's a red four. And so on. With thirteen spades, there's no wiggle room whatsoever.

I'll also hold a card up and ask the spirit that will be working with us, to repeat that card.

It is 99% likely that the spirit's see through my eyes, but Alderbank's spirits will see through his eyes, and both our spirit guides will communicate.
They are not ethereal. They are not being recorded via any external sound.

 

[Cassidy]

Flaccon,
See bolded words. Note that I didn't write "word's". Please, in the name of all that is decent, cease with the superfluous apostrophes. An apostrophe does not join a sentence on a whim. It has a specific use, to denote a plural possessive or a contraction.
Yes, we're joking,.... but it is really distracting.

ETA: Bwahaha! I was so caught up in "plural" that I mis-stated my penultimate sentence. (See strikeover.)

Tell you what, being that my apostrophes are beginning to irritate a few members, I promise not to reply to those members, until I have a better understanding of apostrophes.

 

[Pixel42]

flaccon: yes or no to an objective test? If yes, which of the suggested protocols would you prefer? If yes and you don't like the ones that have been suggested, you need to specify what protocol you do want to use in detail.

 

[Cassidy]

Flaccon, it's not going to get "established" until you focus on developing a strict protocol for the proposed test.

Until you start answering the questions that are directly about those issues and until you start to give unambiguous answers to those questions, we are knitting fog.

I am trying to develop a protocol. I don't know if it's required though. I'm sure it will be fun developing however. With Alderbank present, I will ask the spirit if he has any suggestions. I am sure by the time the spirit has mulled a few ideas over with us, it will be pretty evident that the spirit is present, without further tests.

Its not a white noise, or an odd sound. It's a full on voice in full sentence.

 

[Pixel42]

I am trying to develop a protocol. I don't know if it's required though. I'm sure it will be fun developing however. With Alderbank present, I will ask the spirit if he has any suggestions. I am sure by the time the spirit has mulled a few ideas over with us, it will be pretty evident that the spirit is present, without further tests.

Its not a white noise, or an odd sound. It's a full on voice in full sentence.

So that's a no then.

Don't be surprised if Alderbank decides not to bother to come.

 

[Cassidy]

flaccon: yes or no to an objective test? If yes, which of the suggested protocols would you prefer? If yes and you don't like the ones that have been suggested, you need to specify what protocol you do want to use in detail.

I do believe that if Alderbank is on time, it will take him 10 minutes to realise the presence of spiritual voices, and after a few good tests, it is likely he will come back to this thread with some great posts.

Once its witnessed by a member or 2 from here, we can all start thinking on how best to test, but I think the tests that are written up for today are ok considering its a private testing. Do you not like the playing cards idea? I thought that was a good idea.

 

[Stray Cat]

I'll also hold a card up and ask the spirit that will be working with us, to repeat that card.

You still don't understand why this is not acceptable nor objective?

It is 99% likely that the spirit's see through my eyes,

It is 100% likely that you just made that probabilty up.

 

[Foolmewunz]

So that's a no then.

Don't be surprised if Alderbank decides not to bother to come.

Particularly since it was just indicated that she doesn't understand the idea of the bind test and that she should not be holding up cards and having the spirits view them through her eyes. That's also called "seeing the card" in the non-spirit world and is a total violation of any sane protocol.

 

[Cassidy]

You still don't understand why this is not acceptable nor objective?


It is 100% likely that you just made that probabilty up.

Straycat please don't take offence, I'll not be replying to you until this evening, after Alderbank has seen this for himself. Have a nice day.

 

[Mojo]

It's been explained in records. it's not an explanation I can give. I am not literate enough to find the words required.

If you don't understand the "explanation" well enough to repeat it, how do you know that it is an explanation?

What is "the great mystery of life" it explains?

 

[Stray Cat]

I am trying to develop a protocol. I don't know if it's required though.

It is most definitely required. It is from what Alderbank has clearly stated, a condition of him/her turning up at your residence.
Furthermore it is the only way to provide objective evidence to reach this wider audience that these claimed spirits claim to want to reach.

I'm sure it will be fun developing however. With Alderbank present, I will ask the spirit if he has any suggestions. I am sure by the time the spirit has mulled a few ideas over with us, it will be pretty evident that the spirit is present, without further tests.

You're still not understanding this process and it worries me that you think this is going to cut the mustard.

Its not a white noise, or an odd sound. It's a full on voice in full sentence.

So you keep saying and yet all you have managed to provide is some white noise, electronic chirping and dull thuds (the direct result of auto level recording on webcam software) in which you hear a single word (evidence) that you had to tell us what was being said before any of us heard it the same as you did.
Furthermore, you also claim that the "artworks" are crystal clear photolike pictures in miniature and are unmistakable and yet all you show are some over enlarged blurry blobs in which you have been able to make out some shapes. they are so unclear that you even have to label the various parts in order for other people to see them.

 

[Pixel42]

I do believe that if Alderbank is on time, it will take him 10 minutes to realise the presence of spiritual voices, and after a few good tests, it is likely he will come back to this thread with some great posts.

OK, how about this. Assuming Alderbank does decide to come, you first play her your recordings and show her your images. If she agrees straight away, as you predict, that these are clear evidence of spirits and no objective testing is required, then you don't do one. If, as I predict, she considers them textbook examples of pareidolia, you do the simple card test that I described. Fair enough?

I think the tests that are written up for today are ok considering its a private testing. Do you not like the playing cards idea? I thought that was a good idea.

Which playing cards idea, mine or yours? Yours is utter rubbish, not to put too fine a point of it. Totally inadequate.

 

[Cassidy]

Particularly since it was just indicated that she doesn't understand the idea of the bind test and that she should not be holding up cards and having the spirits view them through her eyes. That's also called "seeing the card" in the non-spirit world and is a total violation of any sane protocol.

It need not be Alderbank, there is a world of potential witnesses before it's placed in the correct hands. As far as I see it, Alderbank has the common sense to understand that something supernatural could well be afoot. Hats off to every witness for their bravery.

If you continue to try to discourage any potential witness here, it will take me only a short while to find another one elsewhere.

 

[Stray Cat]

Straycat please don't take offence, I'll not be replying to you until this evening, after Alderbank has seen this for himself. Have a nice day.

No I don't take offence, you have every right to reply to or not reply to who ever you want. But following your present mindset, don't expect Alderbank to turn up to see it for himself.

If you don't wish to pin down a strict objective protocol for a test, I'll go and have a nice (sunny) day out without having to sit here and worry that I'm missing the greatest event of modern times where it is finally objectively shown that spirits exist and that the paranormal is in fact real.

 

[Cassidy]

OK, how about this. Assuming Alderbank does decide to come, you first play her your recordings and show her your images. If she agrees straight away, as you predict, that these are clear evidence of spirits and no objective testing is required, then you don't do one. If, as I predict, she considers them textbook examples of pareidolia, you do the simple card test that I described. Fair enough?


Which playing cards idea, mine or yours? Yours is utter rubbish, not to put too fine a point of it. Totally inadequate.

I believe that if Alderbank seals a card in an envelope, and the spirits guess right first time, is adequate. Please explain with more detail how that is rubbish?

 

[Stray Cat]

If you continue to try to discourage any potential witness here, it will take me only a short while to find another one elsewhere.

Yes, there are several well known phrases that sum this concept up quite well;
"There's one born every minute" and "every village has one"