Looking for Skeptics

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Aha, I finally found the word evidence, and it is exactly overlapping the 3 word phrase I heard before. Which sounds nothing like evidence, except for the number of syllables and the 'd' sound. And just like a the optical illusion of a picture that flips back and forth between two different things, I can hear either of these from exactly the same stimulus.

I do find it interesting that flaccon and I both identified a bit that sounded maybe like speech, but our interpretation of what it said was quite different. Since "evidence" has already polluted anyone's perception, I will now reveal that I heard "It will do".

IXP
 
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TjW said:
I thought I had posted this idea for a protocol earlier, but a search on my username didn't turn it up.

This depends on the claim being that the spirit voices are in the recordings before anyone listens to them.

Come up with a numbered list of ten questions for the spirits that have known answers. Simple things. like "what is 2+2?" "What city are we in?" "What country does my aunt live in?" Stuff like that. It's okay if flaccon knows the answer, too.
Each question should be on a different subject, so that answers can be easily associated with questions. You wouldn't want two questions to which the answer was a city, for example.
Flaccon should ask the question, recording the answer to a numbered file, but not listen to the answer yet.
After asking all the questions, and recording all the answers, flaccon should leave the room and have someone else rename the files to A through J using dice. For the A file, roll the dice, and rename whatever number comes up to A. There should be a list made so that we know what number is in which letter-named file. Continue in this way for B, C, D, etc. If the number is 11 or 12, or the number that comes up has already been renamed, roll the dice again. Obviously, after renaming to I, there will only be one file that can be J.
Now the person doing the renaming should leave the room with the lists of questions and what the answers have been renamed to.
Flaccon can listen to file A, and write down the answers she hears in file A.
When she's satisfied that she's heard everything correctly, she can continue on to B, and so on.
If she wants to go over them any number of times to make sure she heard correctly, that's fine too.
After she's satisfied that she's heard all the answers that are there, and written it all down, the list of questions and the renaming list can be brought back in and the questions and answers compared.
Now, if the test were being done with a human that knew the answers, there would be a ten for ten correspondence of the questions to the correct answers.
I don't see any reason to think spirits should do worse.
But let's give them a couple of wrong associations just because. If 7 out of the 10 responses are correct, call it a win for the spirits.

If other people can see holes in this, please point it out. I don't see any easy way to calculate odds for this, though.

My expectation for a result would be that there would be some correct answers heard, but not in the file responding to the question.
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This is a perfectly reasonable idea for a test protocol, I think.

Of course, it would only work if the spirits cooperated and at this point I don't think we or flaccon can say that they would. flaccon's been reading up on the Curse of Cassandra. Here's a perfect example:

http://vimeo.com/46018110

None of us here want the same fate to befall flaccon.

Ward
 
Having listened to several of the recordings and versions there of I here no discernible voices. I hear what I think is electronic interference, the high pitch sounds, and I hear something being moved or knocking. I think some people are describing this moving sound as a dog bark but I hear an object being moved.

Only using the speakers on my macbook.
 
Have you tried repeatedly listening to one of the quieter areas? That is where I experience pereidoila kicking in. But then, I also hear voices in my ceiling fan sometimes, never anything understandable though.

IXP
 
To those asking for the spirits to say something unknown to flaccon: What's to say these spirits can answer? They might be parochial and somewhat dim.

The responses to the tests proposed so far are rather teflon rubber duck in nature. The other tests so far all suffer from this slippery nature of the claim. For example, the spirits may not take requests after all.

I reckon the only way to vaguely hear what flaccon hears is to ask her to record what comes out of her speaker when she's hearing the vioces she speaks of. Could a cell-phone app do this?
 
IXP said:
.. I also hear voices in my ceiling fan sometimes ..
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Me too. When I hear the sound from an open car window, and I'm dozing on a long journey, I can turn that into songs with vocals and lyrics and instruments and all. I only wish I could record it! I need to get me some soul!
 
Flaccon should watch a few episodes of Brain Games. There is one in particular that really shows audio pareidolia rather well. At one point, they play an inaudible sentence. You can tell it's someone talking, but you can't tell what they are saying. Heck, I thought I heard "It sounds, like a voice". It turns out it was saying "It cuts, like a knife."

The even freakier one was a girl whom appeared to being saying "gah, gah, gah, gah" although the soundtrack was actually of her saying "bah, bah, bah, bah". Unless you closed your eyes (so you weren't influenced by what you saw), you always heard "gah".

I'm sure that show is pretty basic psychology, but it's presented in a fun way. The brain plays a ton of tricks on us. And it's perfectly normal.
 
Donn said:
To those asking for the spirits to say something unknown to flaccon: What's to say these spirits can answer? They might be parochial and somewhat dim.

The responses to the tests proposed so far are rather teflon rubber duck in nature. The other tests so far all suffer from this slippery nature of the claim. For example, the spirits may not take requests after all.

I reckon the only way to vaguely hear what flaccon hears is to ask her to record what comes out of her speaker when she's hearing the vioces she speaks of. Could a cell-phone app do this?
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We are attempting to build test protocols around what flaccon is claiming. Namely that the spirits are responsive to inquiries and that they have important knowledge to impart.

They have the power to make themselves known to people other than just flaccon. If they will not do so, then they will simply have a private relationship with flaccon and their message will not get out.

We cannot hear them if they refuse to be heard.

Ward
 
Donn said:
To those asking for the spirits to say something unknown to flaccon: What's to say these spirits can answer? They might be parochial and somewhat dim.

The responses to the tests proposed so far are rather teflon rubber duck in nature. The other tests so far all suffer from this slippery nature of the claim. For example, the spirits may not take requests after all.

I reckon the only way to vaguely hear what flaccon hears is to ask her to record what comes out of her speaker when she's hearing the vioces she speaks of. Could a cell-phone app do this?
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The test I proposed was simply to verify that there is meaningful, objective content on the tapes (comparing multiple recordings of the same source to see if the same thing is heard). Until it can be shown that there even is a message, it matters not what the message is.
 
Hokulele said:
The test I proposed was simply to verify that there is meaningful, objective content on the tapes (comparing multiple recordings of the same source to see if the same thing is heard). Until it can be shown that there even is a message, it matters not what the message is.
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Or even less so, where it comes from.

I think the simple first test is to see if multiple people, with no clue about what they should hear, can hear the same thing. If they cannot, I think we can conclude that any interpretation of the "voices" is in the mind of the beholder.

IXP
 
Hokulele said:
The test I proposed was simply to verify that there is meaningful, objective content on the tapes (comparing multiple recordings of the same source to see if the same thing is heard). Until it can be shown that there even is a message, it matters not what the message is.
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Sure, but I think flaccon has too much duck and dive room. It's rather hard to understand her language, but AFAICT the claim is that she (and three or four others, at some time in the past) hear voices speaking words when "recordings" are played out of her speakers.

i.e. The output's the thing.
 
IXP said:
Or even less so, where it comes from.

I think the simple first test is to see if multiple people, with no clue about what they should hear, can hear the same thing. If they cannot, I think we can conclude that any interpretation of the "voices" is in the mind of the beholder.

IXP
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Or have a number of people who do not speak English write down what they hear phonetically and see if it matches up to any known English word, name, or phrase.
 
DuvalHMFIC said:
The even freakier one was a girl whom appeared to being saying "gah, gah, gah, gah" although the soundtrack was actually of her saying "bah, bah, bah, bah". Unless you closed your eyes (so you weren't influenced by what you saw), you always heard "gah".
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That's the McGurk Effect; I posted an example of it a little earlier in the thread. It always amazes me that even when you know what is happening, you can't "turn it off" the illusion is too persistent.
 
Donn said:
Sure, but I think flaccon has too much duck and dive room. It's rather hard to understand her language, but AFAICT the claim is that she (and three or four others, at some time in the past) hear voices speaking words when "recordings" are played out of her speakers.

i.e. The output's the thing.
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Right, that was my test. Have multiple programs record the same period of time on her computer. Do that again a few times, so you have several samples of different time periods. Randomize the recordings, and see if you can correctly identify which recordings were made at the same time(s), preferably using the "Silence" method to avoid outside noise, since apparently the spirits communicate directly through the wiring, and not the microphone.

If the same message appears at the same time in the same voice, it should be trivially easy to match recordings. If it is simply paraedolia in white noise, one would expect to see random matchings.
 
Hokulele said:
If the same message appears at the same time in the same voice, it should be trivially easy to match recordings. If it is simply paraedolia in white noise, one would expect to see random matchings.
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I fear I may be off-track, but that does not seem to cover what I think she is saying.

She's hearing meaning into noise all right, but it's the output from her speakers that's the source. I suspect that whatever goes in is irrelevant.

So, I'd say record that actual output in question and then slice n' dice and test those.
 
That's kind of cool to consider. If this "were true" and the speakers were the conduit. None of the shared files would work. I guess she IS going to have to have an event where people come over. Maybe you could video tape it? Post it up on here?
 
Donn said:
I fear I may be off-track, but that does not seem to cover what I think she is saying.

She's hearing meaning into noise all right, but it's the output from her speakers that's the source. I suspect that whatever goes in is irrelevant.

So, I'd say record that actual output in question and then slice n' dice and test those.
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Ah, I see what you mean. That does seem to make more sense when seen in light of her insistence that it must be done live either in person, or over the phone. Yep, that would be the best way to test this.

Edit: Upon reflection, it makes the claim that one can replay the recordings suspect, as one would expect that the output could vary, if the spirits aren't actually using the original recording, but the playback of such, for communication.
 
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Sounds like you need to get a decent recording from the speakers. A simple digital recorder should do the trick. Then you can compare the original recording with the "playback" recording to see if there's anything different. From there you can listen to the recordings to try to decipher if there's anything being said.

If you determine that there is anything being said then you need to check for interference within the audio system which may allow RF to enter through, say, a bad cable. (Check out the operatic voice at the beginning of the Police song "Does Everybody Stare" for an example of that happening to great effect! That was radio broadcast leaking into Andy's guitar rig.)
 
Hokulele said:
Right, that was my test. Have multiple programs record the same period of time on her computer. Do that again a few times, so you have several samples of different time periods. Randomize the recordings, and see if you can correctly identify which recordings were made at the same time(s), preferably using the "Silence" method to avoid outside noise, since apparently the spirits communicate directly through the wiring, and not the microphone.

If the same message appears at the same time in the same voice, it should be trivially easy to match recordings. If it is simply paraedolia in white noise, one would expect to see random matchings.
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No need for multiple recording even.

I wonder if she would be able to identify each of several of her recordings if someone played them without telling her which was being played. If she can't do that, then there is surely no spirit voice on the recording. Of course, if she can distinguish them, it does not prove anything, they might sound sufficiently different to identify them.

IXP
 
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