Logical? Deism.

[Tricky]

Tricky,

The fact that you have been going sooo far out of your way dodging this question for months and months makes me think that you believe this based solely on wishful thinking and pessimism, or because you simply don’t have enough integrity or intellectual honesty to concede the point.

I see no logical reason why you hold these beliefs.

Perhaps, then, you should ask about the beliefs I actually hold rather than the ones which you (in your intellectual dishonosty) ascribe to me. Post a link to something I have actually said and I will explain what I meant. What could be more honest?

Have I not represented your actual beliefs in The List? Have I not shown exactly where you said these things? All I am asking is that you show me the same courtesy. Pretty please?

 

[Franko]

Tricky: (Deceitful A-Theist)
Perhaps, then, you should ask about the beliefs I actually hold rather than the ones which you (in your intellectual dishonosty) ascribe to me. Post a link to something I have actually said and I will explain what I meant. What could be more honest?

Ahh, so does this mean you are having doubts about the Superiority of Toast?

I thought you told me that YOU make CHOICES amongst AVAILABLE OPTIONS??? Are you denying that you said this? Why all the lies and obfuscation Unas? Why can’t you just explain your beliefs? Why all the dishonesty and denials? Why all the run around all these months? Do you honestly believe that my questions are getting easier for you to answer over Time?

 

[Tricky]

Ahh, so does this mean you are having doubts about the Superiority of Toast?

I thought you told me that YOU make CHOICES amongst AVAILABLE OPTIONS??? Are you denying that you said this? Why all the lies and obfuscation Unas? Why can’t you just explain your beliefs? Why all the dishonesty and denials? Why all the run around all these months? Do you honestly believe that my questions are getting easier for you to answer over Time?

Oh, I forgot. You don't know how to make links. Okay, here's the short course:

• Open a second browser window and connect to the forums.
• Go up to the top of the page and click the "Search" button.
• Enter one or more of key words to search for (they must be at least four letters long).
• Enter the name of the person who's posts you are searching for. If you do not enter a name, it will search for all posters.
• Pull down the forums you wish the search in and the time frame for the search.
• I find it is more useful to click "show results as posts". It takes you right to the words you are searching for.
• Click "Perform Search" This will bring up a screen with several posts in chronological order which meet your criteria. You can click on each one, then use the "back" button on your browser to return to the search results.
• When you find the post you are looking for, click in the address box on your browser and copy it. (Remember I showed you how to bring up the address box yesterday).
• Now start a new post either from scratch or using the "quote" button.
• At the top of the reply window, there is a button labeled "http://" Click it.
• The first window it brings up is the text that will appear in your link. Type anything you like in here. I recommend using the exact words from the post. Click "OK"
• The second window is the http address of the link. Paste the address from the box in the other browser window where you did your search. Click "OK" again.
• Note that this link is always posted at the bottom of your message. If you want it to be elsewhere, you will have to cut and paste everything between the {URL= and {/URL} boxes, including the bracketed boxes themselves.
• Use the "Preview Post" button to see if the link appears the way you want it.
• Submit post.

Now you can link my quotes and we can discuss them. Isn't the internet fun?

 

[Guest]

Franko, I'm not smart enough to debate your beliefs. I am smart enough to realize that if one person in six billion asserts that they and only they possess true understanding of the ultimate nature of the Universe, statistics are not exactly on their side.

 

[Franko]

Sundog:
Franko, I'm not smart enough to debate your beliefs. I am smart enough to realize that if one person in six billion asserts that they and only they possess true understanding of the ultimate nature of the Universe, statistics are not exactly on their side.

I you believe that the Truth is magically decided by a majority vote then i suggest you find the 'One true Faith' based on which church has the largest congregation.

If you honestly believe this then you are right, you aren't prepared to comprehend Logical Deism.

 

[Unas]

I realize that you are DESPERATELY trying to avoid perceiving the glaring contradictions in your Dogmatic Religious Beliefs. I just don’t think that a Skeptics forum for people trying to discuss RELIGION and PHILOSOPHY is the appropriate place for you to be doing it. If you are unwilling or unable to explain your beliefs, and your only purpose for posting on this forum is to harass any Skeptic who believes in a Deity, then you really have no business being here.

Franko wants us to go away, because he cannot answer the simple questions he has been asked.

The is the RELIGION and PHILOSOPHY forum of a SKEPTICS website; not Infidels.org. Take you hate-mongering and condescensions directed towards Theists and deists elsewhere.

Franko is again lying. He has not been the target of "hate-mongering". In fact, a cursory examination of his posts and the ad hominem attacks contained therein will demonstrate that the bulk of the "hate-mongering" in any discussion in which Franko participates is that which Franko himself promotes.

 

[Tricky]

Tricky

I realize that you are DESPERATELY trying to avoid perceiving the glaring contradictions in your Dogmatic Religious Beliefs. I just don’t think that a Skeptics forum for people trying to discuss RELIGION and PHILOSOPHY is the appropriate place for you to be doing it.

You know, I just checked, and by golly you're right. This is the Religion and Philosophy forum. Maybe that's why I'm trying to discuss (as the thread title states), Logical Deism, which, unless I am mistaken is both. You keep harping on science, which has its own forum.

Of course, you could start a thread to discuss those things which seem to be always at the forefront of your mind. If I post to a thread called "What Atheists Believe", I can assure you that I won't ask about Logical Deism. But let's try to return to the title topic here, shall we?

Now does the conscious entity you call TLOP control your perceptions or not, according to Logical Deism?

 

[Unas]

I realize that you are...

Franko has deleted his original post, and reposted the text. He does this frequently, in order to pretend that he has not already been answered -- another manifestation of his basic dishonesty.

 

[Franko]

Tricky: (A-Theist)

Now does the conscious entity you call TLOP control your perceptions or not, according to Logical Deism?

I'd say yes, but you would have to precisely define what you mean by "perceptions". The LG generates this Universe. Everything you "perceive" is transmitted directly by Her to You.

 

[Franko]

Unas:

I realize that you are DESPERATELY trying to avoid perceiving the glaring contradictions in your Dogmatic Religious Beliefs. I just don’t think that a Skeptics forum for people trying to discuss RELIGION and PHILOSOPHY is the appropriate place for you to be doing it. If you are unwilling or unable to explain your beliefs, and your only purpose for posting on this forum is to harass any Skeptic who believes in a Deity, then you really have no business being here. The is the RELIGION and PHILOSOPHY forum of a SKEPTICS website; not Infidels.org. Take you hate-mongering and condescensions directed towards Theists and deists elsewhere.

However, assuming you aren't just another A-Theist relogious fanatic here to Troll (never seen that b4 )... what exactly is making the “choices”? Aren’t “YOU” (people) just your physical brain? … and isn’t your physical brain simply made of atoms (chemicals) obeying the same laws that ALL chemicals obey? How are the chemicals in your brain making “decisions” or “choices” beyond those made by any other chemicals? Are you claiming that the carbon atoms in your physical body obey a different set of rules from those obeyed by other carbon atoms?

What evidence or logical reason do you have for believing that these “choices” are real? Isn’t it a fact, that your “choices” are simple an illusion like the colors red, green, and blue, when the real reality is oscillating photons traveling at the speed of light? Isn’t your “free will” similarly an illusion while the real reality is that you are a puppet completely under the control of Almighty TLOP (The Laws of Physics)???

Please explain your reasoning for believing this? The fact that you have been going sooo far out of your way dodging this question for months and months makes me think that you believe this based solely on wishful thinking and pessimism, or because you simply don’t have enough integrity or intellectual honesty to concede the point.

I see no logical reason why you hold these beliefs.

 

[Tricky]

I'd say yes, but you would have to precisely define what you mean by "perceptions". The LG generates this Universe. Everything you "perceive" is transmitted directly by Her to You.

And yet here you state otherwise.

What definition of "perceptions" are you using?

 

[Franko]

You asked me the Question Tricky. Now you want me to explain what question You were asking?

 

[Tricky]

You asked me the Question Tricky. Now you want me to explain what question You were asking?

Yes, I would like you to explain how you can simultaneously claim that we are in command of our own perceptions and that we are not in control of our own perceptions.

 

[Tricky]

Wow! What a Post by Franko! So many things to learn about that wonderful parsimoneous religion called Logical Deism. Have a look at the posts with the

• [*]red bullets

to see what is new today.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

NOTE: Many of these “beliefs” were verified by Franko in this post.
Origins

• This universe is part of an omniverse.
• The Omniverse, and all of its subsets (Universes, even You and I) are all reiterative hierarchical structures, i.e. fractals.
• The first entity is the Progenitor Solipsist (PS) – our original primordial ancestor – what the Christians call “God the Father/God the Creator”
• The Progenitor Solipsist exists in the distant past when there were only two intrinsic parameters - Mass and Velocity
  [*] After an Eternity of isolation, he was Infinity self-aware, but he had no idea what it would be like to experience individuality, so his Omniscience ended when Individuality began.
  [*] Your soul is a shard of what was once an Omnipotent Solipsist Entity, i.e. The Progenitor Solipsist.
• This universe was created by the Logical Goddess (LG), who also created the forces (electro-magnetism, weak nuclear and strong nuclear). She did not create gravity.
• The LG created The Laws Of Physics (TLOP), except for gravity.
• The Logical Goddess controls everything in this universe.
• Your actions are controlled by the Logical Goddess, but your perceptions are not.
• The Logical Goddess is bound by both fate and logic.
• Everything in the universe is deterministic, including Quantum Mechanics.
• Consciousness creates matter.
• Once Time achieves a certain level of self-awareness it begins to evolve (and expand). Your “extra” spatial dimensions are the early manifestations of “the matter”, but they are merely the byproduct of Time.
• The Big Bang is made up of two parts. The Goddess corresponds to "The Initial State” (the initial “random” configuration of stuff). The other part is The Laws of Physics .

How Things Work

• One soul = one graviton.
• Gravitons come from the omniverse, but not necessarily this universe.
• The Logical goddess is the "top graviton", meaning she is omnipotent.
  [*] In the True reality Gravitons are ALL that exists
  [*] When two Gravitons interact they exchange Energy in the form of memes. This entanglement creates a decision junction in SpaceTime.
• Gravitons are fermions, i.e. they have spin and charge.
• Spin is quality of Mass, and Charge is quality of Velocity.
• Information (i.e. Energy) can be either True or False. The total quantity of information manifest as Mass. The ratio of True information to False information (quality of Mass) manifests as Spin
• Velocity is Speed of Processing (speed of thought, speed of comprehension) and Charge is Quality of Velocity
  [*] Your consciousness is like a fractal. It consist of Two parts, your Algorithm (your Soul, the Velocity of your particle), and your Database (your Graviton, the fractal image itself, the Mass of your particle).
  [*] Two premises make a conclusion and two conclusions become premises which in turn make a new higher level conclusion. The height of your = hierarchy pyramid is your Velocity, the width of your pyramid is your Mass.
• The gender of a graviton is determined by its spin.
• Determinism/Fate/”free will” is the interaction of gravitons of varying strength.
  The same logic that leads me to conclude a more evolved being exist leads me to believe that entities’ gender female.
  [*] The main difference between (males) and the LG, is that (males) don’t have Vaginas, and She doesn’t have a Penis.
• There is no free will. Not libertarian free will. Not compatabalist free will. None.
• An entity which can perceive the future has the power to change the future.
• The LG is the most conscious and complex entity in the universe.
• This entire Universe is essentially an illusion. You and I actually exist as particles in the Truer reality of the Omniverse. This universe is a carefully constructed elaboration of the True reality.
• TLOP are an expression of the LG. She controls them.
• The LG, using TLOP, creates the shape, or body of humans. The soul is the graviton.
• The LG, and by extension TLOP are smarter, more powerful and more complex than humans.
• True randomness does not exist.
• If A has property P and B is made of A, then B has property P. (As shown by the syllogism, "Atoms obey the laws of physics. You are made of atoms. Therefore you obey the laws of physics.)
• Gravity travels faster than the speed of light.
• Gravitons are the fundamental force-carrying particles of Gravity and Time.
• Gravitons are not real in the sense that you and I are real.
• Gravitons obey a higher law that we'd probably call Thermodynamics.
• A Graviton is just a special kind of meme, and memes are just distinct packets of information.
• Gravitons are made of time
• The Logical Goddess cannot create gravitons, but she can destroy them.
• Objects without gravitons don't really exist in the way that You or I do. They are merely projections.
• Essentially, LD is a Unified Theory of Physics.
• The universe can be completely described in terms of binary responses.
• If A controls B then A is more conscious than B. -- EXCEPTION If it appears that a less conscious object is controlling a more conscious object, it is actually the LG that is controlling them both.
• Matter does not physically exist, but is a manifestation of energy.
• At the core of your Soul there is a special type of meme, a special type of algorithm. It possesses this quality you call self-awareness to a far greater degree than other memes. It has this quality because it possesses a meme which gives it Simultaneous Perception. In short it has the ability to perceive two realities (or more) at the same time.
• Electromagnetism is the memetic projection of the Goddess used as an enhanced means of conveying information.
• The rules which bind all consciousness are the Laws of Time and Gravity. These are not laws in the same sense as TLOP
• Space and Time are essentially the same thing, or more accurately “Space” (and it’s cousin the “matter”) are merely manifestations of extrapolated (evolved) Time.

Morality

• Gravitons are intrinsically Good or Evil.
• Good Gravitons will move forward in Time (to a higher energy state), Evil Gravitons will move backwards in Time (to a lower energy state).
• The lower, the worse things are, but not the same as the Christian "Hell".
• the abyss is a Black hole where the Souls that don’t make it get tossed.
• There are consequences for the things you do.
• The things you do are the result of Maximum Perceived Benefit (MPB). This is not the same as free will.
• You will be punished if your MPB causes you to do the wrong things.
• MPB is what is actually evolving. Your algorithm (as well as your database) expands, and evolves over time. It grows. It becomes more complex. You become more self aware. You gain individuality, you gain power. You gain control. You gain freedom.
• Anyone who commits an immoral act is insane
• Threat of punishment is the only thing that leads to morality.
• A situation is a pattern of events outside the context of time.

Miscellaneous/The Lexicon

• Followers of LD are on an Omniworldview line.
• Fate = Karma. Karma is – every action has a equal reaction (initially equal, but magnified over Time)
• No evidence against a thing means evidence for a thing.
• choices are preordained outputs
• In LD an Eternity is a very long long period of time, not an “infinite” period of time.
• Gravity is the force which makes Logic possible, and without Logic there would be no Fate.
• Logic works by having people compare their explanations and seeing which is more logical.
• Love is when the existence of another Graviton becomes more axiomatic then your own existence.

A more detailed explanation of the Logical Deism creation story is given here.

 

[Tricky]

You still haven't quoted me in your sig yet!

That's because I can't decide on which of your statements is the most hilarious. I don't want to have a sig like Headscratcher that is longer than most of his posts.

BTW, why do you never use sigs or avatars, Franko?

 

[Tricky]

Oh yes, I meant to comment on this one.

from The List
An entity which can perceive the future has the power to change the future.

Now unless you are using a double standard, this pretty much invalidates fatalism. Fatalism says the future is fixed and nothing can change it.

Are you now renouncing fatalism and endorsing free will for "entities which can perceive the future"? How much of the future do you have to perceive? I can perceive a small amount myself. Does that mean I have a small amount of free will?

Oh, Franko, me lad, this one is going to come back to haunt you.

 

[Tricky]

Jesus Christ Trixy, why don't you just go back to posting as Unas?

BZZT!!! Wrong guess again, Franko. Unas is not my sock puppet. But I promise you, if you ever DO guess it, I will tell you.

 

[Franko]

Tricky: (A-Theist)

I realize that you are DESPERATELY trying to avoid perceiving the glaring contradictions in your Dogmatic Religious Beliefs. I just don’t think that a Skeptics forum for people trying to discuss RELIGION and PHILOSOPHY is the appropriate place for you to be doing it. If you are unwilling or unable to explain your beliefs, and your only purpose for posting on this forum is to harass any Skeptic who believes in a Deity, then you really have no business being here. The is the RELIGION and PHILOSOPHY forum of a SKEPTICS website; not Infidels.org. Take you hate-mongering and condescensions directed towards Theists and deists elsewhere.

However, assuming you aren't just another A-Theist religious fanatic here to Troll (never seen that b4 )... what exactly is making the “choices”? Aren’t “YOU” (people) just your physical brain? … and isn’t your physical brain simply made of atoms (chemicals) obeying the same laws that ALL chemicals obey? How are the chemicals in your brain making “decisions” or “choices” beyond those made by any other chemicals? Are you claiming that the carbon atoms in your physical body obey a different set of rules from those obeyed by other carbon atoms?

What evidence or logical reason do you have for believing that these “choices” are real? Isn’t it a fact, that your “choices” are simple an illusion like the colors red, green, and blue, when the real reality is oscillating photons traveling at the speed of light? Isn’t your “free will” similarly an illusion while the real reality is that you are a puppet completely under the control of Almighty TLOP (The Laws of Physics)???

Please explain your reasoning for believing this? The fact that you have been going sooo far out of your way dodging this question for months and months makes me think that you believe this based solely on wishful thinking and pessimism, or because you simply don’t have enough integrity or intellectual honesty to concede the point.

I see no logical reason why you hold these beliefs, and the issue of What is YOU is essential to your “explanation” for your belief in magical “free willy” powers. How can you claim that “free will” exist when you cannot even explain what is making the “Choice”?!?!

 

[Tricky]

As I have stated often before, Franko, just show me a link to anything I have said and I will discuss it with you. I decline to defend things I haven't said.

And stop frothing at the mouth. Drool is not good for your keyboard.

 

[Upchurch]

That's because I can't decide on which of your statements is the most hilarious.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with your very next post. "An entity which can perceive the future has the power to change the future." is a pretty good one coming from a fatalist....