Lockerbie: London Origin Theory

Any idea of a time scale on any of that? I'd quite like to know when they decided it wasn't Heathrow.

Of course, there were some suitcases from Heathrow in that container, nevertheless. That's not the same as there being none. Is there any suggestion of how they ruled out the interline bags?

Baz gets very aerated about the "error" made by the court in describing all the suitcases seen by Bedford in AVE4041 as "interline baggage". It's not really an error though. The extra two cases were either the bomb bag or bags, or they were legitimate interline baggage. If you're ruled out the former, then it's correct to include them in the latter category.

I still don't know when they ruled out these cases, and why. Was in nothing more than believing the Tourister case was under the bomb bag? If so, that's just ridiculous. If they can torture the evidence so they're sure it rained on 7th December despite no weather reports of rain, and they're sure there was an unaccompanied bag on KM180 despite sound evidence that flight was checked and clean, surely they can imagine a bit of rearranging of luggage at the last minute in the container!

Oh wait, they did imagine that. They just decided it could only have resulted in the Bedford suitcases being moved away from the crucial corner.

Surely there's more to this than that?

Rolfe.
 
Yay, someone else! Y'know, I miss Dan O. But anyway

Any idea of a time scale on any of that? I'd quite like to know when they decided it wasn't Heathrow.
As soon as they suspected it might be Heathrow I'm sure they wanted to decide it wasn't, and took the first opportunity. They had enough of the container by the last days of January to figure out what Claiden did about the floor damage. This book explains Thurman (who does have a Masters in forensic science and add'l FBI training past that, they were told) was sent along with FAA's Korsgaard, within hours of the crash, same night. Anyway, here's the news for New Year's Eve 1989 - the book cites the Times of London running the headline “Disaster bomb was ‘placed on board jumbo in Frankfurt." Same day FBI internal memo concluded the same - the bomb “entered the Pan Am system at Frankfurt.” [p 160]

The battle started early. Next day, Jan 1 1989:
“West German Interior Ministry spokesman Michael Andreas Butz was convening a news conferencet to respond to the Times account of the day before. “There is no indication,” Butz declared stiffly, “that the explosives could have been put on board at Frankfurt airport.” In fact, he added ominously, “there is evidence which is contradictory.”

What did the Germans know that the Americans and the Scots didn’t?

Butz went on to assert, with some vehemence, that German agents had determined that the “Disaster Bomb” had been smuggled aboard the 103 in London. The German agents had proof of it, Butz said. Smarting from the accusation that sloppy West German security had allowed this terrible act of terrorism, which had resulted in 270 deaths, Germany would begin to strike at the British with a vengeance.” P 161

It continues: Jan 6 Reuters in London, citing “West German security sources,”
"...reported that an airport worker at heathrow had planted the bomb in the forward luggage hold of the 103. According to the sources quoted by Reuters, investigators had arrived at the Heathrow link because of the “fact” that the bomb that had blow up the 103 weighed “at least sixty-six pounds.” Luggage restrictions limited carry-on bags to seventy pounds, but the sources cited in the Reuters account said that the bomb was loaded aboard by an airport worker. What the sources evidently didn’t say is why the airport worker couldn’t have been in Frankfurt instead of London.

Charges and counter-charges continued to fly.” [p 165-66]

Paul Channon, conference in Montreal, Feb 16
“In the prepared text, Chanon’s original statement read thus: “The reconstruction of the baggage container suggests that the explosive devide may have been among the baggage from the Frankfurt flight.” In another, larger typeface, two lines had been inserted before that sentence: “it has not yet been firmly established where the bag which contained the device was originally loaded, but…” The night before Channon’s statement, Bonn’s minister of transport, Jurgen Warnke, had asked that there be no reference made to Frankfurt. The most he had been able to get from Channon was the hasty two-line insert.

It was strange that no one asked any questions about it.” [175-76]

And again, this is ALL based on container damage and dumb reasoning, without even knowing about the printout. At least Leppard and the Scottish police had that, and the six-month delay over it, to get mad about hiding the German link.

Rolfe said:
Of course, there were some suitcases from Heathrow in that container, nevertheless. That's not the same as there being none. Is there any suggestion of how they ruled out the interline bags?

The inviolable levels - it was too high up to be London interline. This book won't help - they just cite there was a forensic examination of "container 14L" and it suggested the Frankfurt luggage. The authors didn't understand how, but we do, and it's a huge unwarranted leap.

Baz gets very aerated about the "error" made by the court in describing all the suitcases seen by Bedford in AVE4041 as "interline baggage". It's not really an error though. The extra two cases were either the bomb bag or bags, or they were legitimate interline baggage. If you're ruled out the former, then it's correct to include them in the latter category.

Yes and no. Kamboj's statements supported interline, in that they were normal interline shed bags, so interline. Bedford couldn't say. So yeah, interline is the expected (but premature) conclusion.

Of course an altimeter bomb blew up one or both as soon as they got up high, so I'm guessing they were NOT interline. :)

I still don't know when they ruled out these cases, and why. Was in nothing more than believing the Tourister case was under the bomb bag? If so, that's just ridiculous. If they can torture the evidence so they're sure it rained on 7th December despite no weather reports of rain, and they're sure there was an unaccompanied bag on KM180 despite sound evidence that flight was checked and clean, surely they can imagine a bit of rearranging of luggage at the last minute in the container!

It's just the not on the floor thing, again in this book, but more vaguely. On studying container "14L,"
Emerson and Duffy said:
American authorities … were pretty confident that the bomb was in a bag loaded in Frankfurt. But because so many baggage handlers in London gave confused statements about the loading of 14L, the Heathrow connection had not been ruled out, and it remains a plausible theory. [268]

I'm sure they knew Bedford's story and could visualize them stacked together. indeed and the image scares the bejeezus out of them. They then pretend not to be able to consider it. But reall all layer 2 means is you can't safely call it either airline's bag.

Oh wait, they did imagine that. They just decided it could only have resulted in the Bedford suitcases being moved away from the crucial corner.

:D And yet somehow must have flown against the bomb's force out the hole in the plane and been eaten by an engine, because they never did the right forensic elimination - show us the other two brown Samsonites and maybe we can accept there were three. Next time, huh?

- Adam
 
I thought Thurman's degree was in political science, and he had no formal forensic qualifications?

Makes you wonder just how much of the conclusions from the debris reconstruction canbe relied on at all.

Riolfe.
 
On Thurman, either the political science meme popped up somewhere on its own, or he was passing off fake creds that were believed back in the day. Undecided here.

But I think what they're saying about the container is true - the bag was not flat on the main floor, the damage is pretty clear. It's the eagerness the assume what that means that's so troubling. The other way to look at it is it was darn close to the floor, aft outboard corner, very very close to where Bedford's bags were, in the best spot to pierce the hull. They can't deny this.

Ah, it goes on an on, huh?
 
How sure are they that the Tourister was underneath, and not on top, say?

Rolfe.

They don't, I don't think. I'm not sure why the judges decided that either. FWIW David Leppard wrote of it as "Karen Noonan's tourister suitcase, which had been stacked directly on top of the bomb bag" and got a piece of circuit board (PT/30) melted into it. There was something under it apparently is all they can really say.

My own guess is the second (left-hand) Bedford bag, its own bomb radio destroyed through 'contact ignition' I'll call it, when the one stacked on top blew. That's my guess for what was found and called the primary case, while the real primary one - in the second layer now - was obliterated. If you really looked through the stores at Dextar you might find a couple duplicate bits showing they got slightly more than one bomb damaged Samsonite.

Eh?
 
It's a thought. Definitely. However, I think the bits of Samsonite they showed to the court were about all they had. Not much, and it would be hard to prove that you had the same bit twice.

I was misled by the question about "could it have been blue with a red trim", or whatever it was Bedford was asked in court. I'm now realising that was just something the advocate made up on the spot. I thought in fact there was a serious suggestion there was a blue suitcase with red trim there. However, it seems to have been one of these ploys simply to point out that the witness isn't sure.

You say you think this box was green. - Yes. - Could it have been yellow? - Well I suppose so.

Doesn't mean anybody said it was yellow, just a way to show that the witness isn't sure. And since this questioning was all 11 years after the fact, of course Bedford wasn't sure. Which is why I'm inclined to place most weight on what he said in 1989, which seems to be that both cases were of a brown Samsonite type.

The thing is, if both cases had bombs, and if the right-hand case was moved on top of the left-hand case, that still leaves a bomb bag on the floor of the container, and you have said you believe the evidence that suggests that wasn't the case.

Both bags being bombs. But still, I thought there was only 450g Semtex overall? Worth thinking about though.

Rolfe.
 
It's a thought. Definitely. However, I think the bits of Samsonite they showed to the court were about all they had. Not much, and it would be hard to prove that you had the same bit twice.

I was misled by the question about "could it have been blue with a red trim", or whatever it was Bedford was asked in court. I'm now realising that was just something the advocate made up on the spot. I thought in fact there was a serious suggestion there was a blue suitcase with red trim there. However, it seems to have been one of these ploys simply to point out that the witness isn't sure.

And I didn't get that you didn't get that. I didn't realize it might have been a specific case, which maybe it was. Hmmm... But more likely just "you don't remember, do you?" Blue is almost the opposite of reddish, a bright color is different from brown, trim is the opposite of main color, sorta. And if you look, he did remember up until that point - at the beginning he does, and the end no more - it might've been "any colour you like," sir, to paraphrase Pink Floyd.
"Q Can you recall whether on 21st December, 1988 any of the luggage that you dealt with or saw at the interline shed destined for Pan Am 103 was a bronze Samsonite case?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you see a bronze Samsonite case?
A A maroony-brown Samsonite case, yes. [specific enough to correct a slightly wrong question]
...
Q Now, I wonder if I could get in a bit more detail of the colour. What is your recollection about the colour of the case lying in that position?
A I think it was a brown or maroony colour, hard-backed suitcase.
...
Q But as far as colour is concerned, can you be any more precise than you have been in your evidence?
A No, sir, I am sorry. [he's being as specific as he can be with his memory]
...
Q And as far as the colour of that particular case is concerned, have you always expressed the same view as to what the colour was?
A To my knowledge, I have.
Q Isn't it fair to say that on different occasions you thought it was brown or maroon, and at one point you were quite certain it was maroon?
A Yes.
Q Again this is no criticism of you, but I am anxious to know what the state of your evidence is about colour. In view of the different expressions of view over the period, are you able to be clear at all as to what the colour of that case was?
A No.
Q With regard to the suitcase that you saw lying down flat to the left side of the container, I would like you to think back as best you can. Could that suitcase have been a blue suitcase with a maroon or brown trim?
A I couldn't say.
Q You don't know whether it was or not?
A No, sir.
Q But it could have been?
A It could have been.
I know I imagine things into the evidence sometimes, but I can't help but read that as Bedford's memory being broken. Thereafter and up to 2000 he could not remember the color. At the beginning of the exchange he did.

You say you think this box was green. - Yes. - Could it have been yellow? - Well I suppose so.

Doesn't mean anybody said it was yellow, just a way to show that the witness isn't sure. And since this questioning was all 11 years after the fact, of course Bedford wasn't sure. Which is why I'm inclined to place most weight on what he said in 1989, which seems to be that both cases were of a brown Samsonite type.

Indeed, the non-broken initial memory is best. And to be clear, that questioning was at the Fatal Accident Inquiry in 1990, so the memory was only about 2 years old at the time. What luck that it broke right there so they could dismiss the bag as too confused on color to be helpful. The Zeist Judges did accept his story without badgering it like that, but then dismissed its relevance based, as we've seen, on "could haves."

But the main point you make, which I'll need to consider:
The thing is, if both cases had bombs, and if the right-hand case was moved on top of the left-hand case, that still leaves a bomb bag on the floor of the container, and you have said you believe the evidence that suggests that wasn't the case.

Both bags being bombs. But still, I thought there was only 450g Semtex overall? Worth thinking about though.

Rolfe.

Well, they were looking for signs of proper detontation, and there would only be one in this case. Clearly if they're right, a damaged suitcase was pushed through the floor. Its case would be penetrated and at least some contents in contact would tear up, burn, melt, etc. If one material was another pat of Semtex, it might ignite but only from one side rather than the optimlal inside-to-out detonation. I wish I could ever see photos of the bag they recovered. I suppose the transcripts mention the sizes and conditions anyway...

But if there was even an ingition directly beneath that, just 4 iches and the bottom side of a suicase away from the aluminum, it does though seem the floor would get more exposure to chemical pitting, etc than we see. And there comes in a possible Frankensteining of the floor - if the center was so high up and even the floor was pitted, that would mean two bomb bags, one detonating and one igniting, and require a large clean chunk from elsewhere be stitched in to hide the fact. Consider what was shown, lower left, the straight edge chunk labeled No. 9 looks like would have been right under the lefy-hand Kamboj bag. That chunk doesn't feel totally right to me:
AVE4041F3A.jpg

(note - the center of damage along the left side here is a bit further in (app 20") than I'd suspect for the Bedford bags, but if they'd been turned 90 degrees, and the container titled somewhere so all bags slid forward, that could explain it.)

Two bombs is unusual, a little elaborate and not necessary for anything and I'm not married to it. But as you say, worth a thought. Maybe the bottom case was a non-bomb bag partner, or sheer coincidental in its similarity and time of introduction to the bomb bag. But the fact is we're thinking one Bedford bag in that corner was the bomb, but the other one didn't turn up damaged, so that's my attempt to explain that - one was vaped, the other damaged bad enough it could look like the bomb.

And on the force, there was 250-300-450-680 grams depending on your source. The Indian Head tests concluded that high range was the best fit (454-680 grams). Most other official sources just don't say. And that could be one bomb detonation or a bit more, but probably not two full explosions.
 
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Damn, I just lost an entire post.

Steve Emerson and Brian Duffy explain how investigators first though the plane had ruptured on the right side (bad guess based on more luggage in the right engine, forgetting cross wind).


That's impossible, by the way. Both engines went into Sherwood Crescent, one on top of the other. They only knew that both were in the same crater because they counted the number of nuts and bolts they sieved out.

Rolfe.
 
Damn, I just lost an entire post.

That's impossible, by the way. Both engines went into Sherwood Crescent, one on top of the other. They only knew that both were in the same crater because they counted the number of nuts and bolts they sieved out.

Rolfe.

It seems you've forgotten, and I know I had, but it's a four engine craft, the 747, whatever difference that makes. The book cites the inboard right engine having luggage in it, the others I guess none (as if they could say one way or the other in all cases?). I'm not sure where if they all wound up in the same place or not or in what shape, but I wouldn't be surprised if the authors weren't just horrible confused like usual on technical issues.

Very much a side point though.
 
Well I try butting out for a bit, and that still doesn't help get anyone else commenting. [ETA: Aside from Rolfe, and oh well] Not to jabber too much, but I did find an interesting thing looking for details on primary suitcase fragments. Looking for abnoramlly large chunks, this:
"suitcase (part of), brown colour, charred edges, found in K Sector, CAD Longtown." "It appeared to be part of a -- what may be a Samsonite suitcase. It's plastic material that appears charred and ragged around the edges. It's about 10 or 11 inches long, brownish coloured on one side and black on the other." [pp 827-28]

I was seeing quite a few other damaged suitcase chunks, mostly brown/Samsonite/normal, a few nearby bags (navy blue, violet, black), and lots of material that would seem ED in size, hardness of material, etc, but it was [/B]gray.[/B]

Then I happened to read this passage in Emerson and Duffy:
“The fragments were a whitish blue. But that hadn’t been the original color of the bag. Further examination showed that the bag had been a Samsonite, a hard-sided suitcase. Purchased new, it had been copper-colored. In the heat and violence of the explosion, the copper had been bleached out to a pale blue. Specialists at Fort Halstead determined conclusively that the copper-colored Samsonite had contained the bomb in a radio-cassette player. They had found the bag that contained the bomb.” [p 191]

Hmmm!!!

So I made a list of all possible IED Samsonite material, brown and gray or gray/white, maybe told once as blueish in hue. One has an interesting note:
[police no. PH/773] "we can see is grey/white material, suitcase interior ... Underneath are the words "Joseph Patrick Curry" in red?
A That is not my handwriting.” [Witness no. 127, Findlay, p 1074-75]
 
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Oh, wasn't there some strange story about a policewoman having told one observer that he'd be hearing a lot about the name "Joseph Patrick Curry" at the trial (or perhaps the FAI, I'm not sure), and then the whole thing disappeared without trace?

It's quite possible there was a mistaken inference or dead end lead there that seemed important at the time. I can't off-hand remember what was so important about Curry. Can you remember who he was?

Going off at a bit of a tangent here, I suppose looking more closely at the whole brown Samsonite thing does in the end lead back to the Gauci evidence. Maybe I'm being unreasonable, but I deeply, deeply distrust the whole idea that one of the terrorists went into that shop and intentionally bought brand new clothes to pack round the bomb in quite such a conspicuous manner. So I think the brown Samsonite and its location and the surrounding bags and just exactly what blew up as opposed to what was right next door are quite important here.

Rolfe.
 
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Oh, wasn't there some strange story about a policewoman having told one observer that he'd be hearing a lot about the name "Joseph Patrick Curry" at the trial (or perhaps the FAI, I'm not sure), and then the whole thing disappeared without trace?

It's quite possible there was a mistaken inference or dead end lead there that seemed important at the time. I can't off-hand remember what was so important about Curry. Can you remember who he was?

Yeah, just didn't have the energy to go into it last night.

Appeal decision, grounds of appeal 1 & 2 make no mention of "Curry" FAI only to give his birthdate (57) and address (Massachusetts).

But here's the good link:
http://i-p-o.org/lockerbie_dalyell.htm
Mary Boylan, the ex-police constable, states:

"A short time later, while searching in field F72"—

this happened on 28 December 1988—

"I recovered the handle and rim of a brown coloured suitcase (Production Label No. unknown to me). This was entered in my notebook. PC Forrest corroborated the find and signed my notebook and production label."

26 Mar 2002 : Column 725

Her statement continues:

"Towards the latter part of 1999 . . . On attendance at Dumfries Police Station I was asked to describe some of the debris from memory. I was then shown the suitcase rim with handle I had found and was asked to identify it, which I did. The Production Label with my signature and that of PC Forrest, and of others whom I did not know, was still attached. A photograph was then shown to me of the said suitcase rim I had found, plus other pieces of the suitcase material. I recognised the rim but not the material. I asked the Fiscal about the significance of the suitcase and he said he could not tell me. What he did say was that the owner of said suitcase was a Joseph Patrick Curry and that I would be hearing and reading a lot about him at the time of the trial."

Mary Boylan continues:

"After giving my statement I left Dumfries and drove to Lockerbie's Garden of Remembrance to pay my respects. I noticed a brass plaque there with the inscription 'Joseph Patrick Curry, Captain US Army Special Forces. Killed in the line of duty'."
 
That post I lost.

If we suppose both Bedford suitcases were placed by the terrorist, flat on the floor of the container, but the bomb bag ended up on top of the other one later, this suggests the terrorist placed the bomb bag on the right. This doesn't seem sensible, since the left-hand-side was the position he'd be wanting it in. Why would he deliberately place it on the right?

I rather think two suitcases being handled as a job lot might be a little less suspicious than one though. I'm just not sure why he wouldn't put them one on top of the other, on the left.

Rolfe.
 
Ok,that's interesting. Is it going somewhere? I have trouble believing the investigators who saw the actual bits got it wrong and we can spot the truth just by reading stuff, but there's wrong stuff here whatever, so what the hell.

Rolfe.
 
On the Curry connection:
Ok,that's interesting. Is it going somewhere?
I'm not sure, and not ready to put it together and see what fits. Not a lot of info about Mr. Curry around. It would be releavant to know how he got on PA 103. Did he come in on 103A, oor from elsewhere? I don't know that yet...

FWIW, another Joseph Patrick Curry has ties right around my neck of the woods, smuggling drugs cross-border in connection with the "United Nations Gang" I imagined I had seen something suggesting his dad was our J.P.C. senior. But if so, I'm not finding it now - right age (30ish in 1988) but Canadian. If so, what, some family business of Special Ops drug smuggling gone awry - a crashed plane in 2007 and a bombed one in 88? The power of imagination, huh?

But back to the suitcases themselves
I have trouble believing the investigators who saw the actual bits got it wrong and we can spot the truth just by reading stuff, but there's wrong stuff here whatever, so what the hell.

Rolfe.

I know whatcha mean. I'm not confident myself we can just look at what's there and figure it out, but it's worth a try at least, and it seems like it might be coming into focus a little.

So I think the brown Samsonite and its location and the surrounding bags and just exactly what blew up as opposed to what was right next door are quite important here.
I was going to argue with that until I read it better. :) Indeed, it's interesting to see what can be sorted out. I'm not too intereseted in the tangential bags at the moment, but anything that's hardshell Sasmsonite suitcase material, fragmented and burnt, is of interest. If the Kmaboj bags were left where they were, other than stacked together, perhaps turned or shunted a few inches, that explains the bomb height and outboard position, but we'd need to see the remains of more than one brownish hardshell Samsonite.

So we are seeing two different colors of just that material, both frequently thought o be the IED bag. Emerson and Duffy call the light-blue material the bomb case, while most IED case finds related at trial were identified by their brownness. It is possible that's all from one case, with parts bleached out and fragmented small, and other parts left colored and in bigger chunks. But it's possible we're seeing both Bedford suitcases turning up in the evidence.

That post I lost.

If we suppose both Bedford suitcases were placed by the terrorist, flat on the floor of the container, but the bomb bag ended up on top of the other one later, this suggests the terrorist placed the bomb bag on the right. This doesn't seem sensible, since the left-hand-side was the position he'd be wanting it in. Why would he deliberately place it on the right?

I rather think two suitcases being handled as a job lot might be a little less suspicious than one though. I'm just not sure why he wouldn't put them one on top of the other, on the left.

Rolfe.

Okay, good thoughts. If we've got one bomb, that's definitely sub-optimal. Wit two, not so much. Now in my stacked scenario, with both cases having bombs, the top one blows first, by chance or from being 6" higher (altimeter, right ;) ). The bottom one was about to detonate, but can't since it's all messed up from being 6" from the other's detonation.

Also, I'm not certain Bedford's story is totally accurate. The faint possibility he placed the bags himself and just blamed "Camjob." He might have reason to only pin half the blame there, and let "who knows" take responsibility for the stacking... or something, I don't know! Witnesses are tricky - psychology enters the picture, hidden motives sometimes, etc...
 
Regarding Curry, I think it was the wording on the memorial that got the WPC all curious. "US Army Special Forces. Killed in the line of duty." Would they put that if he was just returning on the plane from a tour of duty somewhere? On the other hand, if he was really up to something majorly clandestine, actually on the plane, would they stick such an obvious clue right in public sight?

I still intend to pay a visit to the memorial when the weather gets a bit more spring-like. I might take a picture of that. I might go to Blinkbonny Farm and photograph that field too, just to counter the "Kielder Forest" rubbish.

Rolfe.
 
Regarding Curry, I think it was the wording on the memorial that got the WPC all curious. "US Army Special Forces. Killed in the line of duty." Would they put that if he was just returning on the plane from a tour of duty somewhere? On the other hand, if he was really up to something majorly clandestine, actually on the plane, would they stick such an obvious clue right in public sight?

I still intend to pay a visit to the memorial when the weather gets a bit more spring-like. I might take a picture of that. I might go to Blinkbonny Farm and photograph that field too, just to counter the "Kielder Forest" rubbish.

Rolfe.

That and the explosives involvement of it (bomb bag or near) and the word that he'd be talked about a lot (just for having a case near the bomb?). Maybe confusion. I'm not riled up on that aspect at the moment.

Check the coordinates - it looked to me like the foot of BB height, around what looks like a wooded creek area. Or near there. But it was at the edge of Newcastelton Forest, just yards off, which turns into Kielder across the border, right?

I can't imagine a piece of primary suitcase is still stuck up in some tree there now? That would be interesting to find. Create a powerful plastic magnet... on my to do list.
 
I suspect anything still stuck up in these trees is cloth or similar, not anything too solid. And no, I'm not going tree-climbing. Actually, most of that is commercial forestry. I wonder if there has been any concerted effort to check for stuff when plantations in the line of fire were felled?

If you superimpose the map of the debris trails of aircraft bits from the AAIB report on to the OS map, you realise that the field where the timer fragment was allegedly found is right at the end of the trail. These trails seem to represent where everything heavy enough not to have been whipped away by the wind fell. The wind was very strong that night, and the trail is about 20 miles long, but I do think that grid reference represents the end of the heavy stuff.

The things that made it all the way to the North Sea were mainly paper - what Mrs. Horton described, Christmas cards and so on, and I imagine loose clothing from the cabin and stuff like that. And the infamous Toshiba manual pages.

Indeed, the edge of Newcastleton Forest is only yards off. Though it's not all that dense there, and there are a lot of tracks and cycle runs and picnic areas and so on. It's a fair bit further on before you get to the Kielder Forest though. I'm just gently mocking The Maltese Double Cross on the subject.

Rolfe.
 
If we suppose both Bedford suitcases were placed by the terrorist, flat on the floor of the container, but the bomb bag ended up on top of the other one later, this suggests the terrorist placed the bomb bag on the right. This doesn't seem sensible, since the left-hand-side was the position he'd be wanting it in. Why would he deliberately place it on the right?


Sorry, tired now, going to bed. (Mother's day tomorrow, taking Mamma out to lunch, which is good because I get lunch too! :) )

I've been thinking about this. It's probably an unnecessary complication, but the container was unattended again after Bedford went off duty, wasn't it? What's the chances of the bomber coming back and arranging the cases to his liking?

Speculation. He wanted the bomb suitcase on the second row to get it right innto the overhang. Your diagrams have shown that placing was spot-on perfect. So he brought two cases, one being innocent, so as to have one spare to go under the bomb one. Just in case there was nothing else in the container, or nothing he could plausibly move. And as I said, carrying two cases probably looks more natural than one, for someone in baggage-handler's clothing.

He got to the container and was putting the cases down when he was disturbed - possibly by Bedford returning from his tea break. He didn't have a chance to position them as he wanted. He merged into the background but kept an eye on it. When Bedford went off duty and left the container again, he simply took his chance and arranged the bags as he wanted them. The innocent bag was on the bottom and later Karen Noonan's bag went on top of the bomb bag.

I'm still not sure why they didn't find the remains of the innocent but presumably unaccompanied bag with the rest of the damaged stuff. And I suppose that applies no matter what theory we apply to the exact arrangement of the bags. So this isn't a perfect explanation, for sure.

Rolfe.
 

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